For the safety of others, please keep off the highways

James Hodson wrote in message . ..
On 17 Jul 2003 11:47:18 -0700, (Brent Hugh) wrote:

(Brent Hugh) wrote in message . com...
http://illinoisleader.com/columnists...iew.asp?c=6972

It gets better and better . . .


An interesting little thread.

Presumably Joyce Morrison has fallen into the trap of thinking that
cyclists pay no taxes. I also assume that she, as an American, is at
least a little proud of Lance Armstrong's and his USPS team mates'
exploits of the last few years. Where does she think Lance trains? On
a rural path designed for picnickers?

There have been several news items recently on this side of the pond
stating that more and more of us are becomming obese, and that the
situation is far worse in the USA. I wonder how mnany of those c4,500
cyclists were overweight.

On a personal note: I am epileptic and am not allowed to drive. Would
Joyce Morrison wish to prevent me travelling around under my own steam
solely because of my disability?

Disconnected musing over.
James

No, that's why we have the Segway!
Eric

On 20 Jul 2003 18:20:26 -0700, (Eric) wrote:

No, that's why we have the Segway!


Hi Eric

I presume your tongue was firmly lodged in one of your cheeks.

By Segway, are you referring to one of those relatively unstable, slow
machines with two wheels, both of which are in the wrong place?

BTW, is there a "tongue in cheek" emoticon? ;-)

Regards
James

--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Larrau.jpg

"Pat"

wrote:

I agree it shouldn't be a conservative/liberal issue, but the case here is
that it was an outspoken conservative that took the time to write that
screed against cyclists. Can you imagine a liberal writing such a thing?

Pat in TX

As a matter of fact, one doesn't have to "imagine" a liberal espousing such a
ridiculous idea. Liberals voice equally silly positions on a variety of issues
every day. Can you say "victims of a vast right wing conspiracy"? Sure... I
knew you could. ;-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Unfortunately, I was unaware of this until last night, but I let her
have it. I'll post a few lines for you to decide whether or not to
continue reading.

---

Hans points us all to this illogical stockpot full of spurious
assertion stew by, sadly, a conservative in Illinois. I know, I know,
you say - is it possible for conservatives to argue illogically? Yes,
sadly, it is.

Joyce Morrison is ****ed. She's ****ed that the highways of Illinois
(HER highways, dammit) are are sometimes populated with, gasp,
CYCLISTS! Let's give her a moment in the sun, here, ladies and
gentlemen, before we break down to a proper paragraph-level fisking.

***
OPINION -- Beware of bicycles - they could be hazardous to your
health.

There are 55 bicycle trails in Illinois.

In fact, within "bicycle distance" of where we live is the Chain of
Rocks bridge. This bridge crosses the Mississippi River, which
connects the Illinois bicycle trail beginning at Pere Marquette State
Park near Grafton, Illinois, to the well-known Katy Trail in Missouri.
The Chain of Rocks Bridge was recently renovated especially for
pedestrians and bicycles and was paid for by we the taxpayers.

With that wonderful recreational provision, why would 4,500 bikers
(mainly from St. Louis) choose to make a 100 mile bike ride on roads
already heavy with tourist traffic that are two lane, curvy, hilly
roads under construction?
***

Okay. There's the argument. With all o' those trails, why are you on
the roads? First, Trailnet sponsors road rides. You know, sponsor,
with cars driving by periodically checking on the riders to ensure
they are all right. Second, because roads are for bicycles, also.
Third, what, silly, do you think all FIFTY-FIVE of those bicycle
trails are accessible by every citizen of Illinois/Missouri at all
times? Um, might I remind you that Illinois is a STATE. It is a state
of 57,918 sq.mi. You do the math.

Much, much more at http://angelweaving.blogspot.com/200...9164026 52749
(my website).

hln

(Hunrobe) wrote in message ...
"Pat"
wrote:

I agree it shouldn't be a conservative/liberal issue, but the case here is
that it was an outspoken conservative that took the time to write that
screed against cyclists. Can you imagine a liberal writing such a thing?

Pat in TX

As a matter of fact, one doesn't have to "imagine" a liberal espousing such a
ridiculous idea. Liberals voice equally silly positions on a variety of issues
every day. Can you say "victims of a vast right wing conspiracy"? Sure... I
knew you could. ;-)

Regards,
Bob Hunt

I find both liberals and conservatives with anti-cyclist views find
their own way to attack cyclists. The conservatives in my region of
the country attack cyclists as an underclass undeserving of using
roadways that belong to payers of gas taxes, and espouse a might-makes
right philosophy. The liberals in my region claim that cyclists need
to be removed from the roadways for the cyclists' own protection from
reckless drivers, and because reckless drivers who swerve around
cyclists could hurt innocent people. And if a child on a tricycle
cannot operate safely on a major arterial, what right should an adult
have to bike there? What kind of elitist overclass are those "road
cyclists" anyway?

Protection of the right to travel should bridge current political
party differences, because this ideal goes back to even before the US
constitution, all the way to the time of the Magna Carta. The public
has a right to use its road system. Bicycling is an ordinary and
expected use of public ways; travel modes that create a greater
inherent danger to the public due to excess weight, size, or speed do
not gain priority over the more basic, affordable, inherently safe
modes. It takes neither liberal nor conservative leanings to
understand this.

-Steve Goodridge

I have a drivers license too and pay fuel taxes when I drive. Don't I
get to use the road for my riding too? I commute to work by bike to
save some money and cut down on pollution. WHy can't you ride to
church by bike?




. com...
Some poor motorist who had to wait 5 seconds has posted her anti-bike
diatribe for your amusement.

Here is the link to the full article; below that is an excerpt:

http://illinoisleader.com/columnists...iew.asp?c=6972

--------------------

MORRISON: Beware of bicycles
Tuesday, July 15, 2003
By Joyce Morrison )

OPINION -- Beware of bicycles - they could be hazardous to your
health.

There are 55 bicycle trails in Illinois.

In fact, within "bicycle distance" of where we live is the Chain of
Rocks bridge. This bridge crosses the Mississippi River, which
connects the Illinois bicycle trail beginning at Pere Marquette State
Park near Grafton, Illinois, to the well-known Katy Trail in Missouri.
The Chain of Rocks Bridge was recently renovated especially for
pedestrians and bicycles and was paid for by we the taxpayers.

With that wonderful recreational provision, why would 4,500 bikers
(mainly from St. Louis) choose to make a 100 mile bike ride on roads
already heavy with tourist traffic that are two lane, curvy, hilly
roads under construction?

That is what Derry Brownfield of the Common Sense Coalition would call
"ignorance gone to seed."

Last Sunday on our way to church, we had the "privilege" of having our
patience tested. We were behind one batch of these bikers going up a
normally busy road with a steep winding hill, blind curves, no road
shoulder. And these bikers were not about to budge out of the way. To
top it off, the road was freshly milled in preparation for a new
surface.

To see these two wheelers peddling up the hill with rear ends stuck in
the air in tight fitting britches is a humorous sight. But it wouldn't
have been funny to have seen one stretched out along the road with
tire marks across him. These Sunday road warriors were literally
risking their lives to prove they had the right.

We were in our car. We had our seat belts on as required by the law -
our insurance and license fees were paid. We had paid fuel tax when we
purchased our gasoline. Now wouldn't you think that would give us a
bit of a priority?

What was that biker's investment that would give him the right to go
down the middle of the highway? Bikers have no license, no vehicle
insurance, no seat belts, no fuel tax. They are not making any
contribution into the local economy in the way of tourism dollars.
They had their own manned rest stops that furnished them with food and
water, and they certainly can't pack home much from the local shops on
the back of their bikes or in those tight britches.

. . .

Bicycles have been around for a long time and brought joy to many. If
used responsibly, a bicycle is a wonderful source of exercise and
recreation. But are we being prepared to be forced to use bicycles for
our major mode of transportation? Could it be this activity is
purposely being placed into an elitist status with no restrictions and
licensing in an effort to lure people into this mental mode?

If you are a biker, please ride responsibly on a trail that has been
provided for your entertainment, and for your own safety and the
safety of others, please keep off the highways.
--------------------


--Brent
bhugh [at] mwsc.edu

On 23 Jul 2003 08:06:30 -0700, (Heather
Noggle) wrote:

[BIG SNIP]

Third, what, silly, do you think all FIFTY-FIVE of those bicycle
trails are accessible by every citizen of Illinois/Missouri at all
times? Um, might I remind you that Illinois is a STATE. It is a state
of 57,918 sq.mi. You do the math.


Hi Heather

Only 57,918 square miles, eh? According to MS Encarta 2002 England has
an area of 50,352 square miles and Great Britain covers a huge 88,753
square miles. Encarta shows Illinoi as having an area of 57,918 square
miles. Do we have the same source of information, Heather? :-)

BTW, Great Britain is that part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland but without the Northern Ireland bit.

Fifty five cycle trails doesn't sound so many when put into this
context, does it?

IMO, Joyce Morrison is more than ****ed (****ed off, as I brought up
the subject of my little bit of the world); she has some extremely
strange ideas about the requirements of bike riders and her local
geography.

Regards
James

--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Larrau.jpg

Bicycles have been around for a long time and brought joy to many. If
used responsibly, a bicycle is a wonderful source of exercise and
recreation. But are we being prepared to be forced to use bicycles for
our major mode of transportation? Could it be this activity is
purposely being placed into an elitist status with no restrictions and
licensing in an effort to lure people into this mental mode?

I am utterly fascinated by the idea of an activity with an "elitist
status" that, nevertheless, has no restrictions or licencing. Being
lured into a "mental mode" sounds amusing and harmless, although the
writer seems to have entirely too much experience with unusual "mental
modes."

Paul

I think the part about forcibly creating rail trails from abandoned rail
right of ways is the cause of her rant. Some one else posted a link showing
where her farmer husband gets money from the USDA for not planting (I may be
wrong, but that is what I think it said). Put the two together, they must
have had a old railroad track along their property which got turned into a
rail trail, so they didn't get the land so they could get more money not to
plant it.


"Heather Noggle" wrote in message
om...
Unfortunately, I was unaware of this until last night, but I let her
have it. I'll post a few lines for you to decide whether or not to
continue reading.

---

Hans points us all to this illogical stockpot full of spurious
assertion stew by, sadly, a conservative in Illinois. I know, I know,
you say - is it possible for conservatives to argue illogically? Yes,
sadly, it is.

Joyce Morrison is ****ed. She's ****ed that the highways of Illinois
(HER highways, dammit) are are sometimes populated with, gasp,
CYCLISTS! Let's give her a moment in the sun, here, ladies and
gentlemen, before we break down to a proper paragraph-level fisking.

***
OPINION -- Beware of bicycles - they could be hazardous to your
health.

There are 55 bicycle trails in Illinois.

In fact, within "bicycle distance" of where we live is the Chain of
Rocks bridge. This bridge crosses the Mississippi River, which
connects the Illinois bicycle trail beginning at Pere Marquette State
Park near Grafton, Illinois, to the well-known Katy Trail in Missouri.
The Chain of Rocks Bridge was recently renovated especially for
pedestrians and bicycles and was paid for by we the taxpayers.

With that wonderful recreational provision, why would 4,500 bikers
(mainly from St. Louis) choose to make a 100 mile bike ride on roads
already heavy with tourist traffic that are two lane, curvy, hilly
roads under construction?
***

Okay. There's the argument. With all o' those trails, why are you on
the roads? First, Trailnet sponsors road rides. You know, sponsor,
with cars driving by periodically checking on the riders to ensure
they are all right. Second, because roads are for bicycles, also.
Third, what, silly, do you think all FIFTY-FIVE of those bicycle
trails are accessible by every citizen of Illinois/Missouri at all
times? Um, might I remind you that Illinois is a STATE. It is a state
of 57,918 sq.mi. You do the math.

Much, much more at
http://angelweaving.blogspot.com/200...ve.html#105892
916402652749
(my website).

hln

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:01:46 GMT, "Michael"
wrote:

I think the part about forcibly creating rail trails from abandoned rail
right of ways is the cause of her rant. Some one else posted a link showing
where her farmer husband gets money from the USDA for not planting (I may be
wrong, but that is what I think it said). Put the two together, they must
have had a old railroad track along their property which got turned into a
rail trail, so they didn't get the land so they could get more money not to
plant it.


Hi Michael

Assuming that the USDA is the US Department of Agriculture then I have
have no sympathy with here whatsoever. A huge amount of the EU's
budget goes towards farming (the Comman Acrigultrural Policy or CAP)
and is, IMO, a huge waste of money. Subsidies are given to farmers for
leaving their fields fallow in the same way you mention above. Every
now and again the papers state how much per annum the "average family"
(whatever one of those is) pays in tax towards this scheme. Once in a
while, usually just before a meeting of the EU heads of state, Blair
(and his predecessors) says he will definitely negotiate a reduction
in the amount Britain pays towards this scheme. A few days later, Tony
returns from the heads of state meeting with ... wait for it ... no
change to the policy.

Anyway, Michael, anti-EU rant over!

Personally, I can see nothing wrong with the creation of bike paths
from disused railway lines. The forcible creation of those tracks may
well be a different matter. As always, the circumstances are
important.

There is only one similar train into bike path near me and it makes
for a very nice 30+ mile ride. OTOH, there is a nice series of A roads
(one grade of road below motorway/multi-lane highway) that goes
between the same points. There are also some pleasant country lanes
that cover the same route.

These days I prefer road riding to cycling on paths. Guess which route
I'd take?

End of a rant on a different topic. :-)

A final comment: I no longer drive a car but I can sympathise a little
with Ms Morrison. Comming across some 4,500 cyclists and not being
able to overtake them in a reasonable time could be frustrating,
especially if one has allowed a certain time for a journey. I believe
there is a proverb about - I can't think of it at this moment.

End of over-long post.
Regards
James

--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Larrau.jpg