Who needs EPO?

In article .net, Sam
wrote:

"Steve McGinty" wrote in message
...
On 15 Aug 2003 10:44:26 +0950, DiabloScott
This is pretty much what the US Olympians (including Grewal and Twigg)
did in LA in 1984.

Goes back at least to Lasse Viren the Finnish Olympic 5 and 10,000 mtr
champ from the 1972 Games.

Regards!
Stephen

Never proven...Lasse never disavowed it because if people were thinking he
was boosting then he had thinking about that rather than how to beat him.

Like the Nolan Ryan spitball. It helped him beat batters even when the
ball was clean.

-WG

"Tom Schulenburg" wrote in message
.com...

"Steve McGinty" wrote in message
...
On 15 Aug 2003 10:44:26 +0950, DiabloScott
This is pretty much what the US Olympians (including Grewal and Twigg)
did in LA in 1984.

Goes back at least to Lasse Viren the Finnish Olympic 5 and 10,000 mtr
champ from the 1972 Games.


And '76 games. Didn't win anything of note outside of that.

-T

Well there was not a lot else to win in those days. There were no World
Championships. European Championships were about as close as one could get
and obviously leaves out some important countries. Lasse treated the
Olympics much like Lance treats the Tour.

There was no big money road racing in those days and they are not allowed to
take money without sacrificing their "amateur" status.

Viren was offered 1 million dollars to tell a German magazine the true story
in an exclusive, Viren told them that he would say he did not dope. The
magazine decided not to offer the deal since there would be no story.

Examine Viren's training (from Running with the Legends) fro a typical week
leading up the Games:

Sunday AM 25 km run (HR below 96 BPM!) in 1:46:00
PM 12 km fartlek 52:00
Monday AM 12 km (with 8x600m uphills @ HR 180 bpm) 1:02:00
noon 15 km fartlek
PM 12km fartlek 52:00

Tuesday Am 15 km farltek 1:22:00
Noon 12 km of intervals 2x10x200, 5 min rest between sets
50:00
PM 17km fartlek 1:08:00
Wednesday AM 15 km fartlek
PM 20 km
Thursday AM REST
PM 22 km 1:22:00
Friday AM 12 km fartlek 1:00:00
noon 15 km fartlek 58:00
PM 12 km fartlek 52:00
Saturday AM 12 km fartlek 50:00
Noon 16 km fartlek 1:05:00
PM 10 km 42:00

Viren was an animal who peak properly for the only event he cared for or
that matter.

"Tom Schulenburg" wrote in message y.com...
"Steve McGinty" wrote in message
...
On 15 Aug 2003 10:44:26 +0950, DiabloScott
This is pretty much what the US Olympians (including Grewal and Twigg)
did in LA in 1984.

Goes back at least to Lasse Viren the Finnish Olympic 5 and 10,000 mtr
champ from the 1972 Games.


And '76 games. Didn't win anything of note outside of that.

There was the hilarious case of Finland's Martti Vainio, stripped of
his 1984 Olympic 10,000m silver medal for steroid use. He stopped
using steroids months before the Games, and didn't expect to test
positive, but had blood-boosted just before the event with blood he'd
removed during a steroid cycle. Ouch.

Many observers were convinced that gold medalist Alberto Cova (ITA)
was also cheating somehow (his career apart from the Olympics wasn't
distinguished), but iirc nothing was ever proven.

In article ,
Lindsay wrote:

Every time someone mentions Lasse Viren I think of the old Be Bop
Deluxe song, Modern Music.

"Lasse Viren, 3 Olympic Gold Medals already ..."

That voice sounds a lot like Phil Liggett.


Thanks for the reminder, that's a good song. And it does sound like PL, only
if he was coming out of a radio.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Better a lapdog for a slip of a girl than a ... git." Blackadder

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Sam" wrote in message

Examine Viren's training (from Running with the Legends) fro a typical
week
leading up the Games:

Sunday AM 25 km run (HR below 96 BPM!) in 1:46:00
PM 12 km fartlek 52:00
Monday AM 12 km (with 8x600m uphills @ HR 180 bpm) 1:02:00
noon 15 km fartlek
PM 12km fartlek 52:00

Tuesday Am 15 km farltek 1:22:00
Noon 12 km of intervals 2x10x200, 5 min rest between sets
50:00
PM 17km fartlek 1:08:00
Wednesday AM 15 km fartlek
PM 20 km
Thursday AM REST
PM 22 km 1:22:00
Friday AM 12 km fartlek 1:00:00
noon 15 km fartlek 58:00
PM 12 km fartlek 52:00
Saturday AM 12 km fartlek 50:00
Noon 16 km fartlek 1:05:00
PM 10 km 42:00

Viren was an animal who peak properly for the only event he cared for or
that matter.



Sam,

You don't write with much hyperbole, if at all, but I'm supposed to believe
that Viren ran 254 km (155 miles)/week with a "rest" day of 'only' 22 km (14
miles) in a typical week?

"Tom Kunich" wrote in message ink.net...
"warren" wrote in message
...
In article , DiabloScott
wrote:
Today they would DQ these folks on high
hematocrit levels.

They could get benefit and still be below the allowable limit.

Err, what is the benefit of having the same level as everyone else?

Err, maybe there is a benefit to having a greater red cell volume
AND plasma volume? Did you notice the numbers for average crit for
the tour is no longer 49.9%? Do you think it's because the riders
aren't using epo any other means to alter blood chemistry any longer?

Maybe someone figured out that if you boost the crit, and dilute the
blood back to an "athletic" level by increasing the plasma volume,
that you get even better results.

After all, in response to aerobic training, crit goes down, not up.

"Ken Papai" wrote in message
news:yYs%a.158484$uu5.23820@sccrnsc04...

Blood-boosted with his own blood that was "months old?"
I doubt it. 3-4 weeks is all whole blood lasts.

Which is why initial scientific studies of so-called blood doping generally
yielded negative results. It was only after the high glycerol freeze
technique was invented that RBCs (not whole blood) could be stored long
enough for a subject to regenerate that which was removed, such that
reinfusion of the stored RBCs resulted in an increase in hematocrit. Studies
using this method have consistently found increases in VO2max, etc.

Andy Coggan

In article . net, Andy
Coggan wrote:

"Ken Papai" wrote in message
news:yYs%a.158484$uu5.23820@sccrnsc04...

Blood-boosted with his own blood that was "months old?"
I doubt it. 3-4 weeks is all whole blood lasts.

Which is why initial scientific studies of so-called blood doping generally
yielded negative results. It was only after the high glycerol freeze
technique was invented that RBCs (not whole blood) could be stored long
enough for a subject to regenerate that which was removed, such that
reinfusion of the stored RBCs resulted in an increase in hematocrit. Studies
using this method have consistently found increases in VO2max, etc.

I know why an increase in RBC's would help performance but why/how does
an increase in plasma volume alone help performance-assuming you're not
dehydrated?

-WG

"warren" wrote in message
...
In article .net, Sam
wrote:

"Steve McGinty" wrote in message
...
On 15 Aug 2003 10:44:26 +0950, DiabloScott
This is pretty much what the US Olympians (including Grewal and
Twigg)
did in LA in 1984.

Goes back at least to Lasse Viren the Finnish Olympic 5 and 10,000 mtr
champ from the 1972 Games.

Regards!
Stephen

Never proven...Lasse never disavowed it because if people were thinking
he
was boosting then he had thinking about that rather than how to beat
him.

Like the Nolan Ryan spitball. It helped him beat batters even when the
ball was clean.

-WG

Ryan was never known for his spitball; that was Gaylord Perry.

"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message
...

"Sam" wrote in message

Examine Viren's training (from Running with the Legends) fro a typical
week
leading up the Games:

Sunday AM 25 km run (HR below 96 BPM!) in 1:46:00
PM 12 km fartlek 52:00
Monday AM 12 km (with 8x600m uphills @ HR 180 bpm) 1:02:00
noon 15 km fartlek
PM 12km fartlek 52:00

Tuesday Am 15 km farltek 1:22:00
Noon 12 km of intervals 2x10x200, 5 min rest between
sets
50:00
PM 17km fartlek 1:08:00
Wednesday AM 15 km fartlek
PM 20 km
Thursday AM REST
PM 22 km 1:22:00
Friday AM 12 km fartlek 1:00:00
noon 15 km fartlek 58:00
PM 12 km fartlek 52:00
Saturday AM 12 km fartlek 50:00
Noon 16 km fartlek 1:05:00
PM 10 km 42:00

Viren was an animal who peak properly for the only event he cared for or
that matter.



Sam,

You don't write with much hyperbole, if at all, but I'm supposed to
believe
that Viren ran 254 km (155 miles)/week with a "rest" day of 'only' 22 km
(14
miles) in a typical week?


That is taken from his training log. Written in Running with the Legends by
Mike Sandrock.