The one thing that couldn't go wrong, did go wrong.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 05:42:57 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
That part is hardened, and was made by Campagnolo,
while the stays are not.

And you're wrong about the method of construction. The forged dropouts
are forged in one piece. They are brazed into the frame. There is
normally no welding involved. And they are not hardened.

You saying forging doesn't harden steel?

No, it doesn't. Forging does things to the steel that cause it to be
harder, but it doesn't harden it.

Jasper

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
41 wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Why would all freewheels need to be eccentric?

The "technical" term is freewheel wobble. I suppose if they worked hard
enough at it they coul d design it out, and if I understand Sheldon's
description of the new Shimano 7sp megarange freewheels (11-28, 11-34),
it is reduced, but no one I know of has ever thought of it as a problem
to be eliminated.

Why do they need to be eccentric? Why are they eccentric?
You'd think someone designing a freewheel would align the
centers, by default.

They're not eccentric, they're loose, i.e. it's the result of play. Try
reading Sheldon's article on the megarange freewheels, I believe he
mentions something about it in passing. My freewheel's not coming off
again till next spring, so I won't be of much further help.

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
Ed Sullivan wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
StaceyJ wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

---snipping Blair's concerns---

Ok. Simple solution. Ditch the Neuvations. Look for a pair of NOS 7
speed freehubs (E-bay has tons). These will be 126mm spacing. Have a

Some will. Not many mention 126mm in the ads, and those
that do aren't NOS, they're recycled. And 36 spokes...

LBS build a set of wheels for you. Take your spiffy new 9 speed
casette, and ditch a cog. Place the now 8 speed casette onto the 7
speed freehub. Adjust the limit screws on your rear der. so that you
cannot make the '9th' shift (onto your largest cog). You now have an 8
of 9 on 7 setup (Sheldon describes this process at
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7 )

That's in the list of possibilities already.

It'd be nice to keep the Neuvation rim and spokes (they're
all aero) and find a compatible hub. But how many 24-spoke,
126-mm hubs are there?

"Until something else breaks,
the status is quo."


Dear Blair P. Houghton

Go away and never come back.

Thanks,

Ed

You're already dead, Ed.

--Blair
"And your show was overrated."


Dear Blair P. Houghton,

I live in the hearts and memories of millions.

Thanks,

Ed

P.S. Spread the f**kin stays and be done with it you moron.

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Or I could tell you to take your bad attitude about a simple
problem and shove it up your ass. But then I'd have a bad
attitude about a simple problem. But then it'd be your fault.

So shove it up your ass.

--Blair
"Thanks for the moral authority."

Let's see. I, and several others, some with volumes of experience,
offered you some advice that follows accepted practices; advice you
asked for to start out with. You didn't know what to do in the first
place. You didn't know how the DO's were attached to the frame, you
thought the Campy DO's were "hardened", and you seemed to think that
the posters would suggest a risky procedure (given a sound frame). You
bragged about being able to curl 70lbs with each hand, yet seemed to
have problems getting the stays spread a quarter of an inch to put that
wheel in there. You ordered that rear wheel without aparently knowing
about spacing issues, and then went wandering through the parts dept.
looking for axles, spacers, cogs that would solve your problem, instead
of doing as Jobst Brandt said, which would have taken maybe 15 minutes,
or taken the frame to a pro shop for a (possibly more accurate)
alignment with the "tip tools" that I supplied a "picture story" link
to, since you didn't seem to have any familiarity with the subject at
hand.

The problem, and the "bad attitude" is that you, even apparently
lacking *any* knowledge about cold setting or DO alignment, didn't hear
what you wanted to hear.

Got any more clever comebacks? Riding that bike yet? --TP

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 05:44:05 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Jim Adney wrote:
If you care to stop by sometime, I have a supply of Campy 1010s,
1010As, and 1010Bs which I'll let you take a file to. None of them are
hardened. Not the verticals, either.

You saying forging doesn't harden steel?

--Blair
"Mr. Miura! Mr. Miura!"

Heat treating after forging hardens steel. Forging toughens steel.

Ron

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:25:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:

41 wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Why would all freewheels need to be eccentric?

The "technical" term is freewheel wobble. I suppose if they worked hard
enough at it they could design it out, and if I understand Sheldon's
description of the new Shimano 7sp megarange freewheels (11-28, 11-34),
it is reduced, but no one I know of has ever thought of it as a problem
to be eliminated.

Why do they need to be eccentric? Why are they eccentric?
You'd think someone designing a freewheel would align the
centers, by default.

If he produced a design that was rugged, light and economical to produce (the
holy trinity of bike engineering) and found that while freewheeling there was a
small and benign runout, why would he change it.

The aesthetic pleasure of such perfection will be trumped immediately by the
reliable, light, cheap triumvirate.

Ron

Dans le message de
ups.com,
a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré
:

Got any more clever comebacks? Riding that bike yet? --TP

It used to be the moron's fault. Now, I don't know. Can we let it drop,
and maybe he'll get more creative. Or disappear. I don't see his posts any
longer, unless others repeat and answer them.

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
Dennis P. Harris wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:14:27 GMT in rec.bicycles.tech, Blair P.
Houghton wrote:

You say it's easy, why don't you pony up and indemnify the
process against any sort of mechanical error for the $20k
or so this frame is really worth to me.

oh, bullpucky. no frame is worth that much, and you're just
obsessive. PLONK.

I work about 100 feet from a guy who paid $3 million for
a baseball he never hit himself.

There are only two reasons one pays $3M for a baseball:

1) bragging rights
2) they think they can sell it for more in the future

Neither of these apply to your bike frame. Realistically, your frame
is worth hundreds, not thousands. No one will pay for your sentiment,
no insurance will indemnify for it either.

Conversely, in the right context, no frame is worth the
price of postage.

Wrong. I shipped a frame/fork to Colorado (from California) at the
beginning of the summer. $16. The frame was certainly worth more than
$16.

- rick

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
StaceyJ wrote:

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

---snipping Blair's concerns---

Ok. Simple solution. Ditch the Neuvations. Look for a pair of NOS 7
speed freehubs (E-bay has tons). These will be 126mm spacing. Have a

Some will. Not many mention 126mm in the ads, and those
that do aren't NOS, they're recycled. And 36 spokes...

And what is the problem with 36 spokes? Or older hubs? I have a
couple of 36 spoke Maillard hubs off of late 80 Trek bikes. I'll
rebuild one and send it to you for postage if you want. Not the worlds
best hub, but I bet it is at least as good as the one on the Neuvation
wheels. If you wanted the best, find a pair of old Phil Wood hubs
where the rear is 126 and threaded for a freewheel. The bike sitting
behind me in my office has a set of those from 1979 with who knows how
many tens of thousands of miles. These are the Energizer Bunny of hubs
- built to take a licking and keep on rolling. I see hubs of a similar
vintage up for auction/sell regularly.

LBS build a set of wheels for you. Take your spiffy new 9 speed
casette, and ditch a cog. Place the now 8 speed casette onto the 7
speed freehub. Adjust the limit screws on your rear der. so that you
cannot make the '9th' shift (onto your largest cog). You now have an 8
of 9 on 7 setup (Sheldon describes this process at
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#up7 )

That's in the list of possibilities already.

It'd be nice to keep the Neuvation rim and spokes (they're
all aero) and find a compatible hub. But how many 24-spoke,
126-mm hubs are there?

What's the obsession with those rims and spokes? There are plenty of
standard rims out there that are not that heavy. Some are aero. And
you can use something like DT Revolution spokes if you want something
that is 'aero', though unless you are going fast all the time there is
not much benefit. And 24 spokes is a recipe for problems at some
point. PLONK, and then the wheel has a major wobble and you are
consigned to carrying the bike home.

- rick

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:57:31 GMT, Jasper Janssen
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 05:42:57 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
That part is hardened, and was made by Campagnolo,
while the stays are not.

And you're wrong about the method of construction. The forged dropouts
are forged in one piece. They are brazed into the frame. There is
normally no welding involved. And they are not hardened.

You saying forging doesn't harden steel?

No, it doesn't. Forging does things to the steel that cause it to be
harder, but it doesn't harden it.

Jasper

Dear Jasper,

What is the difference between causing something to be
harder and hardening it?

Carl Fogel