Patent updates

On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 5:33:03 AM UTC, James wrote:
On 10/11/19 3:46 am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:51:27 PM UTC, James wrote:
On 8/11/19 6:31 am, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads. WTF? These are patentable
designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/




Oh how I long for all electric wireless brakes and gears.


Preferably radio controlled.

Yes, that is the meaning of "wireless" in my reply above.

--
JS

Aha! Sorry, careless of me. I taught myself electronics -- with a lot of help I found on the net and at suppliers -- out of Fritz Langford-Smith's great text, The Radio Designer's Handbook, see
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...MPS%20RDH.html
Mr Langford-Smith was employed at the Australian Wireless Company. I should have remembered that.

Andre Jute
Now let us praise famous men -- Ecclesiastes

On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 3:23:19 AM UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Sorry, but dynamo power is probably insufficient for heating.

I beg respectfully to differ. If you're pedalling hard enough for the hub dynamo to generate even a fraction of the electricity you need to warm up your clothes, gloves, boots, saddle and grips, you will soon enough be so hot you won't require electrical clothes, gloves, boots, saddle and grips.

Andre Jute
Relentless rigour -- Gaius Little Boots, Emperor of Rome

On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process. But I believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair. Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV all the time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two or month or so. I don't know how often dye is required. But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually likely that most
buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about the downsides of
internal cables. I suspect that most of them will never ride the bikes
enough to need cable replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their
bikes at the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal with any
of the possible frustrations. So their thinking will be limited to a
subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for
aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's car every
Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike color. Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would praise beauty
salons as a place of community, where frequent meetings lead to personal
interaction, friendships and relationships. The author says we need more
places like that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel illustrating the same
thing, centered in a small town barber shop.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 19:18:53 +1100, James
wrote:

On 11/11/19 5:52 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 16:34:40 +1100, James
wrote:

If you're running power from a battery to all the components, you've
voided the intent of "wireless".

Agreed. However, which would you consider more reliable? Wireless
brakes and shifting, or wired brakes and shifting?

Wireless is much less reliable because it's susceptible to
interference from outside sources, mutual interference from other
wireless devices on the bicycle or nearby bicycles, and for low power
devices, limited range. I can see wireless control for non-critical
devices such as lighting, media player, navigation, coffee warmer,
bicycle computer, and perhaps data collection. I would not use
wireless for brakes, shifting gears, or any other electrical device
that might produce a crash or other accident.

1. https://waic.avsi.aero/about/
2. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...0070013704.pdf
I'm not asking for anything extraordinary, so it seems.

If you want reliable wireless, the most common method is to provide
both frequency and positional redundancy (also known as diversity
reception). For example, if you squeeze the brake levers, instead of
a single RF signal path, frequency redundancy would use two (or more)
RF frequencies to insure that at least one signal arrives at the
brakes and stops the bicycle. Since it is also possible for something
to be blocking an RF path, two pairs of antennas are used at each end,
each following a different path to arrive at the brakes. In other
words, double the cost of the signaling and control equipment. It's
not a huge increase in cost, but are you willing to pay the price?

Fly by wire, or rather fly by wireless, offers no feedback to the
bicycle rider. When one applies the brakes or shift gears, there is
some mechanical feedback provided to the rider to indicate that
braking and shifting were successful. Without this feedback, the
rider could easily make an error in judgment based on the assumption
that the braking or shifting was successful. It is technically
possible to provide some form of tactile feedback using "force
feedback". Some computah joysticks include some form of force
feedback to enhance realism. At some point, trying to recreate the
"feel" of a mechanical braking or shifting system would become
sufficiently complex that simply switching to CVT (continuously
variable transmission) and computerized speed control might be easier.
Or, one could model both the front and rear derailleur system so that
the chain is positioned by a servo motor and pre-calculated to always
move in an optimum manner (fastest shift) and land in the optimum
position. Do you want a system that always shifts and stops perfectly
every time?

Replacing cables with wireless control and electrical activation is
not going to make all the aforementioned happen overnight. However,
it will provide a path where someone is going to try and sell it. My
guess is that it will hailed as a great innovation in the name of
safety, and then fail miserably when the product liability lawsuits
arrive after an early adopter dies because he believed they are
expected to save him from his own stupidity. In my never humble
opinion, wireless control should be used for accessories, not brakes
and shifting.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Monday, 11 November 2019 12:13:51 UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process. But I believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair. Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV all the time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two or month or so. I don't know how often dye is required. But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually likely that most
buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about the downsides of
internal cables. I suspect that most of them will never ride the bikes
enough to need cable replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their
bikes at the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal with any
of the possible frustrations. So their thinking will be limited to a
subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for
aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's car every
Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike color. Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would praise beauty
salons as a place of community, where frequent meetings lead to personal
interaction, friendships and relationships. The author says we need more
places like that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel illustrating the same
thing, centered in a small town barber shop.

--
- Frank Krygowski

How about those who have green lawns in a desert? What a waste of the most precious commodity a desert has = water.

Cheers

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:17:21 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 3:23:19 AM UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Sorry, but dynamo power is probably insufficient for heating.

I beg respectfully to differ. If you're pedalling hard enough for the
hub dynamo to generate even a fraction of the electricity you need to
warm up your clothes, gloves, boots, saddle and grips, you will soon
enough be so hot you won't require electrical clothes, gloves, boots,
saddle and grips.

In my very limited experience with wearing excessive clothing while
cycling in cold weather, I found that wearing a portable sauna was not
compatible with riding comfort, first impressions, and personal
hygiene.

This might be of interest:
"Why don't climbers use electrically heated suits?"
https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/16689/why-dont-climbers-use-electrically-heated-suits
Aerogel insulated jackets.

The built in heaters are usually controlled by a smartphone app via
BT:
"Mobile Warming"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOKlFJLN2dc
Yet another candidate for distracted bicycle riding.

Andre Jute
Relentless rigour -- Gaius Little Boots, Emperor of Rome


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 11/11/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process. But I
believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair.
Purely for aesthetics. I see commercials on TV all the
time. I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two
or month or so. I don't know how often dye is required.
But I know its not a one time thing. Old people hair
naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver
color. Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing
internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a
decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually likely
that most buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about
the downsides of internal cables. I suspect that most of
them will never ride the bikes enough to need cable
replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their bikes at
the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal with
any of the possible frustrations. So their thinking will be
limited to a subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of
inconvenience for aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's
car every Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike color.
Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair
dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the
current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would praise
beauty salons as a place of community, where frequent
meetings lead to personal interaction, friendships and
relationships. The author says we need more places like
that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel illustrating
the same thing, centered in a small town barber shop.


"people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for
aesthetics. One word: tattoos. "

pffft.
My 2d tattoo[1], $20 in 1973, had been a great value[2].
Name something you bought for $20 in 1973 you still own, let
alone enjoy.

[1] I did my first myself. Not recommended.
[2] et seq- all the rest are equally long lasting.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 5:41:47 PM UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:17:21 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote:

On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 3:23:19 AM UTC, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Sorry, but dynamo power is probably insufficient for heating.

I beg respectfully to differ. If you're pedalling hard enough for the
hub dynamo to generate even a fraction of the electricity you need to
warm up your clothes, gloves, boots, saddle and grips, you will soon
enough be so hot you won't require electrical clothes, gloves, boots,
saddle and grips.

In my very limited experience with wearing excessive clothing while
cycling in cold weather, I found that wearing a portable sauna was not
compatible with riding comfort, first impressions, and personal
hygiene.

This might be of interest:
"Why don't climbers use electrically heated suits?"
https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/16689/why-dont-climbers-use-electrically-heated-suits
Aerogel insulated jackets.

That's pretty interesting. I haven't been up Everest, but I've been in the Arctic Cicle and environs, and I've raced across the Southern Ocean in winter several times, and I know there's cold and cooooooold. I found that just a little lower down Alaska even a pair of padded Carhartt overalls were too hot of me to run in. A key idea in such dangerous cold climes is that people kill themselves by doing something stupid. One of these stupid things one is warned about is to permit yourself to perspire and to let perspiration freeze in clothes on you.

The built in heaters are usually controlled by a smartphone app via
BT:
"Mobile Warming"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOKlFJLN2dc
Yet another candidate for distracted bicycle riding.

Another dumb idea. I can't read the screen of my iPhone outside. That's why it speaks my heart rate and other critical data. I can just hear Nanny's voice saying, "You're overheating now. Stop within twenty yards and take all your clothes off." (Reminds me of the satisfaction I felt long ago when I bought a Volvo estate to take my child to school, and the first thing I did was rip the throat of the Swedish harpy telling me to belt up, not to switch the DRL off, not to exceed 70mph, etc, etc, a lot more I never heard because she had no voice left. Eventually I turned it into a good car by breathing on the suspension and fitting a Chevy V8 which, ironically, was more economical than its sluggish PRV V6.)

I remember a movie where this city detective from some warm place goes up North to solve a case, and as he and his guide are about to go bush, the guide grabs his battery powered socks and throws them away, saying, "What will you do when the battery gives out?" Tom Berenger and Denzel Washington? Slow Johnny will look it up of us on IMDB.com.

Ande Jute
Danger, danger!

On 11/11/2019 12:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/11/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/11/2019 5:23 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:42:10 -0800 (PST),
"
wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:57:07 PM UTC-6, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?

--
- Frank Krygowski

I personally am not familiar with the process.Â* But I
believe thousands or millions of people dye their hair.
Purely for aesthetics.Â* I see commercials on TV all the
time.Â* I assume they re-dye their hair every week or two
or month or so.Â* I don't know how often dye is required.
But I know its not a one time thing.Â* Old people hair
naturally returns to its original gray, white, silver
color.Â* Compared to dying your hair, I'm guessing fishing
internal cables through a bike frame once or twice a
decade is fairly minor and immaterial.

To further discuss my statement above: It's actually likely
that most buyers of high-end bikes don't ever think about
the downsides of internal cables. I suspect that most of
them will never ride the bikes enough to need cable
replacement. Of those that do, most will drop their bikes at
the LBS and pay whatever it costs, so they won't deal with
any of the possible frustrations. So their thinking will be
limited to a subliminal "Hey, that's trendy; I want it."

But more generally, people will go through a LOT of
inconvenience for aesthetics. One word: tattoos.

More words: Women's shoes. Manicured lawns. Washing one's
car every Saturday. Bike jerseys that match the bike color.
Etc.


Good Lord! You go to the Beauty Salon to get your hair
dyed. Which
also gives you a chance to get up to date with all the
current gossip
:-)

The book I'm reading, _Palaces for the People_, would praise
beauty salons as a place of community, where frequent
meetings lead to personal interaction, friendships and
relationships. The author says we need more places like
that. I can see his point.

_Jayber Crow_ by Wendell Barry is a sweet novel illustrating
the same thing, centered in a small town barber shop.


"people will go through a LOT of inconvenience for aesthetics. One word:
tattoos. "

pffft.
My 2d tattoo[1], $20 in 1973, had been a great value[2]. Name something
you bought for $20 in 1973 you still own, let alone enjoy.

The main inconvenience of tattoos, I've been told, is the pain. My wife
has a fascination with them and often asks people about theirs. The most
frequent answer to her "Did it hurt?" is "YES!" Some then say "It was
worth it." (One said "What can I say? I was stupid.")

But whether you like having it or not is not the point. My point was,
you probably went though the pain for aesthetic purposes.

As to what I own from that era: How about my K&E Deci-Lon slide rule?
(Sorry, I don't recall its 1966 price.) In my desk drawer six inches
from my knee. A functional tool, as well as a thing of geeky beauty! ;-)

I'm also looking at a nice German air rifle, bought used in about '73.
It may soon have an appointment with the squirrel I see trying to get to
the bird feeder.

One of my earliest vinyl record purchases is still here and brought out
occasionally. _Medieval Roots_ by New York Pro Musica. Still beautiful
and exotic.

Other purely aesthetic objects from 1973? I can't think of one right now
- probably because my tastes have changed. That's why I don't get tattoos.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 11/11/2019 12:32 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:


How about those who have green lawns in a desert? What a waste of the most precious commodity a desert has = water.

Agreed!

I've spent considerable time wondering why we have lawns at all. I mean,
what a weird thing - whack down all the native vegetation, clear it out,
plant something that really doesn't want to grow here, spend hours (or
hire someone) to chop it to a socially approved height, remove or poison
anything else that might want to grow there, pay for water and chemicals...

The answers I've found are more complex than one might think, probably
going back to eastern Africa.

--
- Frank Krygowski