Sad because I have never gotten a free frame under warranty

My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works
Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after
her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect.
Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the
virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring
cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at
no cost.

My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous
one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd
free replacement) from Cannondale.

I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while
others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some
sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer
money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty
frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice.

I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about
this situation ;-).

Op 11-9-2012 17:35, SMS schreef:
My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works
Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after
her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect.
Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the
virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring
cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at
no cost.

My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous
one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd
free replacement) from Cannondale.

I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while
others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some
sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer
money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty
frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice.

I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about
this situation ;-).

Are you comparing 2 kg Al and CF frames with 2 kg CrMo frames? I guess not.

Lou

Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 11-9-2012 17:35, SMS schreef:
My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works
Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after
her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect.
Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the
virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring
cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at
no cost.

My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous
one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd
free replacement) from Cannondale.

I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while
others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some
sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer
money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty
frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice.

I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about
this situation ;-).

Are you comparing 2 kg Al and CF frames with 2 kg CrMo frames? I guess not.

I don't doubt a 2 kg CrMo frame would crack. Is that a bug, or a feature?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sep 11, 8:35*am, SMS wrote:
My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works
Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after
her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect.
Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the
virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring
cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at
no cost.

My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous
one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd
free replacement) from Cannondale.

I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while
others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some
sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer
money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty
frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice.

I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about
this situation ;-).

Let's not forget the four or five custom steel frames I broke . . .
and didn't get a free replacement, although a couple of those were
crushed by cars, which is not part of any warranty program. Three did
just break. I re-brazed one twice. One I didn't like in the first
place, so when it cracked at the HT/TT and HT/DT, I just tossed it.
One basically cracked and then rusted through the ST above the BB and
got tossed. None was more than fifteen years old. My Cannondale
Black Lightning lasted for 20 years. You can break anything. I
prefer to break Cannondales because the warranty is good, and turn
around time on a new frame is relatively short.

-- Jay Beattie.

Op dinsdag 11 september 2012 21:55:20 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski het volgende:
Lou Holtman wrote: Op 11-9-2012 17:35, SMS schreef: My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect. Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at no cost. My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd free replacement) from Cannondale. I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice. I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about this situation ;-). Are you comparing 2 kg Al and CF frames with 2 kg CrMo frames? I guess not. I don't doubt a 2 kg CrMo frame would crack. Is that a bug, or a feature? -- - Frank Krygowski

I think I rather have a 2 kg CF frame than a 2 kg CrMo frame if I was concerned about the durability. This applies to a roadbike of course. People are short of memory. In the days when steel frames were default and at their peak of weight reduction they cracked/break like match sticks.

Lou

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:19:44 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

Op dinsdag 11 september 2012 21:55:20 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski het volgende:
Lou Holtman wrote: Op 11-9-2012 17:35, SMS schreef: My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect. Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at no cost. My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd free replacement) from Cannondale. I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty
frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice. I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about this situation ;-). Are you comparing 2 kg Al and CF frames with 2 kg CrMo frames? I guess not. I don't doubt a 2 kg CrMo frame would crack. Is that a bug, or a feature? -- - Frank Krygowski

I think I rather have a 2 kg CF frame than a 2 kg CrMo frame if I was concerned about the durability. This applies to a roadbike of course. People are short of memory. In the days when steel frames were default and at their peak of weight reduction they cracked/break like match sticks.

Lou

But a 2 kg. steel frame is not a particularly light frame (assuming
when you say "frame" you meant "frame"). A bog standard, assembly line
made, Japanese rental bike, lugged steel road frame, I picked up a
couple of years ago weighed 2.2 kg., painted. It had cantilever brakes
and removing the brake studs might well have gotten it down to 2 kg.
(using side pulls).

Op woensdag 12 september 2012 13:55:00 UTC+2 schreef John B. het volgende:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:19:44 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman wrote: Op dinsdag 11 september 2012 21:55:20 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski het volgende: Lou Holtman wrote: Op 11-9-2012 17:35, SMS schreef: My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect. Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at no cost. My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd free replacement) from Cannondale. I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice. I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about this situation ;-). Are you comparing 2 kg Al and CF frames with 2 kg CrMo frames? I guess not. I don't doubt a 2 kg CrMo frame would crack. Is that a bug, or a feature? -- - Frank Krygowski I think I rather have a 2 kg CF frame than a 2 kg CrMo frame if I was concerned about the durability. This applies to a roadbike of course. People are short of memory. In the days when steel frames were default and at their peak of weight reduction they cracked/break like match sticks. Lou But a 2 kg. steel frame is not a particularly light frame (assuming when you say "frame" you meant "frame"). A bog standard, assembly line made, Japanese rental bike, lugged steel road frame, I picked up a couple of years ago weighed 2.2 kg., painted. It had cantilever brakes and removing the brake studs might well have gotten it down to 2 kg. (using side pulls).

You are right. A light steel road frame is about 1800 gr, but I think SMS rides a frame which much heavier. He is 'complaining' he never broke a frame and comparing that with examples of broken CF and Al in the lightweight division.

Lou

On 9/11/2012 3:40 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

Let's not forget the four or five custom steel frames I broke . . .
and didn't get a free replacement, although a couple of those were
crushed by cars, which is not part of any warranty program.

The key word there is "custom." A mass-production steel frame was
probably a bit heavier, but also stronger. There were (and probably
still are) custom frame builders building CroMo frames that are "stupid
light" using steel tubing that is too thin-walled.

I think that my road bike was 23 pounds when purchased, which is about 7
more pounds than a Carbon Fiber compact frame road bike weighs. If you
made a CroMo frame stupid-light then it would be as fragile as a CF
frame of similar weight.

There's a good article at http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=29
where you can learn about all this; pay close attention to the sections
on defect tolerance and fatigue strength.

The key thing to remember on CF and aluminum bicycles is that they are
essentially disposable bicycles. There's nothing wrong with buying one,
just like there was nothing wrong with buying a Yugo versus a Corolla.
It's not a question of if they will break, it's a question of _when_
they will break. Meanwhile, as the link above states, there are hundreds
of thousands (actually millions) of several decades old steel bicycles
being used.

Carbon frames are now common on high end mtn bikes.

They weigh in at approx the same or just a little less than aluminum frame high enders.

Speaking to one of the workers at the shop in sedona where I'm renting an aluminum frame bike (a Santa Cruz tallboy 29er) for two days of riding (and thankful vacation!) with my son he said and repeated a couple of times that he and the other main guy in the shop both have carbon mtn bikes and it's for the comfort. Especially riding the sedona rocks.

Which I don't look particularly forward too, not being a good technical, off road rider.

But I bought a mtn bike for my son for his bday a couple of months ago (NOT a high ender) and he's been driving to sedona or prescott nearly every week for riding.I would say best present I've ever given him, though an expensive one.

We're excited by doing it together. He's recorded on his phone several of his rides. 25% grades at stretches. I'll be walking.


On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:35:55 AM UTC-7, SMS wrote:
My 2nd cousin recently posted a photo of her new Specialized S-Works

Amira on Facebook, explaining that Specialized provided it to her after

her previous CF Specialized frame cracked due to a manufacturing defect.

Her post was commented on by several other cyclists extolling the

virtues of their brand (Trek, Cannondale, Specialized) for honoring

cracked frame warranties by providing a new frame, or whole new bike, at

no cost.



My friend got a new Trek Madone frame after the frame on his previous

one cracked. Jay Beattie is on his third Cannondale aluminum frame (2nd

free replacement) from Cannondale.



I'm sad because I've never cracked any of my CroMo frames, so while

others enjoy their new bikes I haven't scored one. There should be some

sort of incentive program for owners that don't cost the manufacturer

money in lifetime warranty costs, i.e., after 25 years of no warranty

frame replacement you get 50% off a new bike of your choice.



I'm going to Interbike next Wednesday and I'll complain to someone about

this situation ;-).

On Sep 12, 8:05*am, SMS wrote:
On 9/11/2012 3:40 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

Let's not forget the four or five custom steel frames I broke . . .
and didn't get a free replacement, although a couple of those were
crushed by cars, which is not part of any warranty program.

The key word there is "custom." A mass-production steel frame was
probably a bit heavier, but also stronger. There were (and probably
still are) custom frame builders building CroMo frames that are "stupid
light" using steel tubing that is too thin-walled.

I think that my road bike was 23 pounds when purchased, which is about 7
more pounds than a Carbon Fiber compact frame road bike weighs. If you
made a CroMo frame stupid-light then it would be as fragile as a CF
frame of similar weight.

There's a good article at http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=29
where you can learn about all this; pay close attention to the sections
on defect tolerance and fatigue strength.

The key thing to remember on CF and aluminum bicycles is that they are
essentially disposable bicycles. There's nothing wrong with buying one,
just like there was nothing wrong with buying a Yugo versus a Corolla.
It's not a question of if they will break, it's a question of _when_
they will break. Meanwhile, as the link above states, there are hundreds
of thousands (actually millions) of several decades old steel bicycles
being used.

O.K., I also broke a Schwinn. The front end literally fell off. I
have a Cannondale that I bought in 1987. It will last forever because
I rarely ride it. I see steel frames all the time that will last
forever -- because they are hanging on garage walls or getting ridden
twice a year at the vacation home.

Old, heavy steel frames -- custom or not -- typically failed due to
construction errors, e.g.. improper filling of joints, over-heating of
joints, bad paint that allowed for water intrusion and rust and any
number of things. If they were ridden hard, they could and would
break. I don't dispute that modern, light weight frames are more
prone to failure even when properly constructed, but they could also
"last forever" if socked away in the garage or beach house, and a good
olde-tyme steel frame could fail in five years if ridden hard.

I had five or six custom steel frames. None lasted two decades . . .
one or two might have if they had not been stolen or hit by a car,
some I'm not ruling out the possibility. I had a 1969 PX10 that I got
before I shot up in height during high school, and that got given to
my tall college girlfriend who may still have it. I visited her a
long while ago, and it was hanging in her garage, and she was shopping
for a new Trek.

-- Jay Beattie.