#1
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Skewers
Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the frame. I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the mountains. I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only changes I had made, just maybe... I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride this morning. The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901 The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB 91.69 a set - ~US$2.88) The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar) If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help. -- cheers, John B. |
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#2
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Skewers
On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote:
Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the frame. I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the mountains. I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only changes I had made, just maybe... I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride this morning. The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901 The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB 91.69 a set - ~US$2.88) The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar) If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help. -- cheers, John B. In principle an external cam skewer works the same as a internal cam skewer.. They stretch the axle that act as a spring to preload the friction surface. With a external cam skewer there is in no time there is so much friction between the cam an de curved washer that you don't have any idea what preload you put on the axle. You 'feel' friction instead of the stretching of the axle. That is the problem I have with external cam skewers. They look pretty but are junk by definition and are replaced before the first ride. I have external cam skewers in my junk bin from DT swiss, Zipp, Hope and available as a free gift. Lou |
#4
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Skewers
On 5/5/2019 12:57 AM, John B. wrote:
Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the frame. I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the mountains. I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only changes I had made, just maybe... I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride this morning. The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901 The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB 91.69 a set - ~US$2.88) The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar) If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help. Good for you, Mr Detective. All skewers function better with an oiled cam. Dry, dirty or even rusted are much less effective. Even so, steel (bell type) skewers clamp much tighter for any given hand pressure than aluminum (open cam) designs. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#5
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Skewers
On Sun, 5 May 2019 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote: Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the frame. I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the mountains. I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only changes I had made, just maybe... I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride this morning. The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901 The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB 91.69 a set - ~US$2.88) The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar) If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help. -- cheers, John B. In principle an external cam skewer works the same as a internal cam skewer. They stretch the axle that act as a spring to preload the friction surface. With a external cam skewer there is in no time there is so much friction between the cam an de curved washer that you don't have any idea what preload you put on the axle. You 'feel' friction instead of the stretching of the axle. That is the problem I have with external cam skewers. They look pretty but are junk by definition and are replaced before the first ride. I have external cam skewers in my junk bin from DT swiss, Zipp, Hope and available as a free gift. Lou After I wrote the above I found a Sheldon page that explains that the internal cam skewers - what I referred to as "older Skewers" will, in normal use, apply more locking force because the lever (handle) to cam ratio is greater thus the same force to "close" the skewer results in more force applied to the spindle of the skewer with the older "internal cam" skewer than with the more modern external cam skewer. -- cheers, John B. |
#6
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Skewers
On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 3:30:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2019 06:18:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:58:04 AM UTC+2, John B. wrote: Recently I had some problems with one bike. It is an older bike with the nearly horizontal forward facing "drop outs". I had disassembled all my bikes to make it easier to load in the van when we moved to the new house and after re-assembling the bike I found that the rear wheel would not stay located in the rear drop outs. Riding only a short distance would cause the wheel to twist so that the cassette side of the axle slid forward enough that the tire rubbed on the frame. I had ridden the bike for several years in Bangkok - generally very flat terrain - with no problems and the only change, I thought, was the installation of a 12 - 34 cassette as the new house is in the mountains. I was about ready to try and modify the rear drop-outs to something with a vertical opening (like newer bikes) when I got to thinking. I had used some very sleek looking, gold anodized, skewers when I reassembled the bike and as that and the new cassette were the only changes I had made, just maybe... I replaced the new, pretty, skewers with some old skewers that I had and lo and behold the rear wheel staid centered for a two hour ride this morning. The pretty new gold anodized skewers that apparently weren't clamping tightly enough to hold the wheel in place looked like https://www.ebay.com/b/Bicycle-Skewe...825/bn_1856901 The tenth illustration down labeled "Mountain MTB Road Bike Bicycle Wheel Hub Skewers Quick Release Bolt Lever Axle" and showing the very pretty red, yellow, silver, blue, and black anodized skewers (THB 91.69 a set - ~US$2.88) The old used set I replaced them with looked like the first illustration, labeled "Campagnolo Record REAR and Chorus FRONT QR Skewer Quick Release" although mine don't seem to have any name on them. (THB 41.45 - a bit over a dollar) If you are riding an old bike - a Classic is the term I use - and having wheel problems maybe a change to the older skewers would help. -- cheers, John B. In principle an external cam skewer works the same as a internal cam skewer. They stretch the axle that act as a spring to preload the friction surface. With a external cam skewer there is in no time there is so much friction between the cam an de curved washer that you don't have any idea what preload you put on the axle. You 'feel' friction instead of the stretching of the axle. That is the problem I have with external cam skewers. They look pretty but are junk by definition and are replaced before the first ride. I have external cam skewers in my junk bin from DT swiss, Zipp, Hope and available as a free gift. Lou After I wrote the above I found a Sheldon page that explains that the internal cam skewers - what I referred to as "older Skewers" will, in normal use, apply more locking force because the lever (handle) to cam ratio is greater thus the same force to "close" the skewer results in more force applied to the spindle of the skewer with the older "internal cam" skewer than with the more modern external cam skewer. -- cheers, John B. Also the older skewers are steel and the modern one's are aluminum and they are extremely difficult to get tight enough to hold well. |
#7
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Skewers
Older skewers had serrated surfaces that dug into the dropout. The bikes usually had a soft chrome plating that permitted the skewers to dig in. This added friction and prevented the forward motion generated by the chain/cog interface.
Vertical dropouts resist the forward motion. It isn't necessary for the skewer to resist any forward motion in a vertical dropout. The skewer manufacturers were happy to eliminate an extra step in the manufacturing process. Riders still using bikes with horizontal dropouts and have been skewered. |
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