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Alps (2005)



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 29th 08, 05:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default Alps (2005)

Tim McNamara wrote
the better choices for riding into Nice are relatively indirect . . .
Here's my experiences in this part of the Alps:
http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/alps2002-1.html


Looks like you toured lots of pretty roads and some worthy accomplishments.

Reading your report for Day 8, I can see your concern for finding "indirect"
better choices for riding into Nice -- after your experience trying a more
direct approach.

Ken



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  #12  
Old October 29th 08, 11:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Tim McNamara
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Default Alps (2005)

In article ,
"Ken Roberts" wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote
the better choices for riding into Nice are relatively indirect . .
. Here's my experiences in this part of the Alps:
http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/alps2002-1.html


Looks like you toured lots of pretty roads and some worthy
accomplishments.

Reading your report for Day 8, I can see your concern for finding
"indirect" better choices for riding into Nice -- after your
experience trying a more direct approach.


Yes, that stretch (the D6202 after about Saint-Martin-du-Vars, I think)
did pretty much suck. It was like riding on an interstate except that
Europeans generally seem to have a clue about how to drive around
cyclists. There was generally a wide shoulder in good repair. Once on
the Promenade des Anglais it was much better. I didn't like Nice all
that much, but maybe I just got off to a bad start with it. The folks
of Nice were very friendly and helpful, I'll give them that.
(Interesting thing I noticed about the French, they use the full names
of all streets when giving directions- no shortening street names like
we Americans tend to do).

From other touring reports that I have read, it seems like there would
be nicer options angling into Nice from closer to Italy. Coming in from
Saint-Martin-Vésubie via the D19 looks like it would be better, for
example; I had thought about this in 2002. It would have been hard to
go that way after going through the Gorge du Cians, which really is a
"don't miss this" stretch of road (a descent all the way from Beuil to
the intersection with the D6202 through a narrow slot in the rocks.
Spectacular). We'd really have needed another day to make that work
comfortably, which we didn't have due to the time constraints of one of
the folks on the ride.

http://nicolase.declochez.free.fr/sp...d_document=749

http://nicolase.declochez.free.fr/sp...d_document=750

http://nicolase.declochez.free.fr/sp...d_document=751
  #13  
Old October 30th 08, 10:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,751
Default Alps (2005)

Tim McNamara wrote:

the better choices for riding into Nice are relatively indirect...
Here's my experiences in this part of the Alps:


http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/alps2002-1.html

Looks like you toured lots of pretty roads and some worthy
accomplishments.


Reading your report for Day 8, I can see your concern for finding
"indirect" better choices for riding into Nice -- after your
experience trying a more direct approach.


Yes, that stretch (the D6202 after about Saint-Martin-du-Vars, I
think) did pretty much suck. It was like riding on an interstate
except that Europeans generally seem to have a clue about how to
drive around cyclists. There was generally a wide shoulder in good
repair. Once on the Promenade des Anglais it was much better. I
didn't like Nice all that much, but maybe I just got off to a bad
start with it. The folks of Nice were very friendly and helpful,
I'll give them that. (Interesting thing I noticed about the French,
they use the full names of all streets when giving directions- no
shortening street names like we Americans tend to do).


From other touring reports that I have read, it seems like there
would be nicer options angling into Nice from closer to Italy.
Coming in from Saint-Martin-V?subie via the D19 looks like it would
be better, for example; I had thought about this in 2002. It would
have been hard to go that way after going through the Gorge du
Cians, which really is a "don't miss this" stretch of road (a
descent all the way from Beuil to the intersection with the D6202
through a narrow slot in the rocks. Spectacular). We'd really have
needed another day to make that work comfortably, which we didn't
have due to the time constraints of one of the folks on the ride.


http://nicolase.declochez.free.fr/sp...d_document=749

http://nicolase.declochez.free.fr/sp...d_document=750

http://nicolase.declochez.free.fr/sp...d_document=751

That looks like the Gorge du Cains alright, but rest assured that the
French HWY department is being pressed to tunnel past these scenic
places as they have on the Roya river below Tende at the Gorge du
Saorge. Gotta get those skiers up the hill without difficulty, They
are city folk after all.

Jobst Brandt
  #14  
Old October 31st 08, 08:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
sergio
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Posts: 504
Default Alps (2005)

On 29 Ott, 15:36, Tim McNamara wrote:

There are great choices from Briancon south, but the better choices for
riding into Nice are relatively indirect. *Jobst and Sergio would know
them better than I. *Here's my experiences in this part of the Alps:


Thanks for the compliment, but sorry to disappoint you.
In fact I have toured down there only once, back in 1975 I guess,
from the Italian border through Nice up to Bardonecchia.
I did not like it so much, to the point that I never went back to La
Bonette nor to Col de Vars, preferring more modern routes for my
vacations.

Instead, there is a place I like so much close to Briancon on the
valley of La Clairee, just west of Col de l'Echelle:
Nevache!
Check it out, by all means.

Sergio
Pisa
  #15  
Old October 31st 08, 01:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default Alps (2005)

sergio wrote
Instead, there is a place I like so much close to Briancon
on the valley of La Clairee, just west of Col de l'Echelle:
Nevache!

Yes from the city of Briancon I rode northeast over Montgenevre and then
returned over Echelle -- and I thought it was pretty good.
Which reminds me that Briancon could be a nice base for at least a couple of
loop rides, since I also rode a nice loop first south from Briancon staying
to the west of the river and going a little into the Ecrins / Pelvoux
mountains, then across to Guillestre and return over Col d'Izoard.

Ken



  #16  
Old October 31st 08, 01:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,751
Default Alps (2005)

Ken Roberts wrote:

Instead, there is a place I like so much close to Briancon on the
valley of La Clairee, just west of Col de l'Echelle: Nevache!


Yes from the city of Briancon I rode northeast over Montgenevre and
then returned over Echelle -- and I thought it was pretty good.
Which reminds me that Briancon could be a nice base for at least a
couple of loop rides, since I also rode a nice loop first south from
Briancon staying to the west of the river and going a little into
the Ecrins / Pelvoux mountains, then across to Guillestre and return
over Col d'Izoard.


Mention of Briancon always brings back the memory of my first ride
there in 1959 when there was no town as we know it today other than a
couple of small shops. I and my two friends rode up through the old
drawbridge into the walled city to find an inn. We had not previously
seen such a town entirely built of stone with steep streets having a
gully down the center into which everyone swept their trash.

We had a simple room with bunk beds and blankets, ate well and in the
morning saw the piles of stuff that was swept down the streets and
over the wall into the canyon below... to be carted away at times by
garbage trucks. We rode on up the valley to the Galibier with no
traffic and rode through the tunnel at the summit that was still open
at that time, the ancient road over the top was overgrown and dead.

In those days, skiing had not come to the region and riding over the
Col d'Iseran revealed a val d'Isère agricultural village with barns
and cows herded down the main street. Jean Claude Killy had not yet
worked his magic on the town that today is one of the most garish ski
towns, an insult to nature and the beautiful mountains.

Jobst Brandt
  #17  
Old October 31st 08, 02:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
sergio
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Posts: 504
Default Alps (2005)

On 31 Ott, 13:51, wrote:
In those days, skiing had not come to the region and riding over the
Col d'Iseran revealed a val d'Isère agricultural village with barns
and cows herded down the main street. *Jean Claude Killy had not yet
worked his magic on the town that today is one of the most garish ski
towns, an insult to nature and the beautiful mountains.


Since you, Jobst, mention cows there aren't so many of them any longer
on the Val d'Isere side, but ... .
But on the other side, the good side of the Iseran nowadays in my
opinion, if one lodges at Bonneval sur Arc there is a good chance he
has got to fight to get drinking water from the fountains right in the
middle of the village.
That happened to me only a couple of years ago: to struggle against a
few thirsty cows.

Sergio
Pisa
  #18  
Old October 31st 08, 03:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
sergio
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Posts: 504
Default Alps (2005)

On 31 Ott, 13:51, wrote:
*Jean Claude Killy had
not yet
worked his magic on the town that today is one of the most garish ski
towns, an insult to nature and the beautiful mountains.


As insulting as Cervnia is to Valtournanche.

Sergio
Pisa
  #19  
Old October 31st 08, 07:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,751
Default Alps (2005)

Sergio wrote:

whenÂ*Jean Claude Killy had not yet worked his magic on the town
that today is one of the most garish ski towns, an insult to nature
and the beautiful mountains.


As insulting as Cervinia is to Valtournenche.


I often wonder how Cortina d'Ampezzo escaped this fate relatively
unscathed, unscathed compared to ISOLA2000 for instance, and Cervinia.
I recall the first Pink Panther movie when inspector Clouseau arrived
in Cortina in the beautiful blue and white train. I fault the region
for not having reinstated that train after the Longarone Dam disaster
that wiped out the town and railroad junction with FS Italia.

Even today, the region would do well to rebuild that rail line from
Longarone to Dobbiaco (standard gauge), the way the train from Merano
to Málles in the Alto Adige was rebuilt. Just imagine Cortina without
the thousands of cars in town and on all approaches.

http://inspectorclouseau.com/

Jobst Brandt
  #20  
Old October 31st 08, 08:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
sergio
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Posts: 504
Default Alps (2005)

On 31 Ott, 19:05, wrote:
. *I fault the region
for not having reinstated that train after the Longarone Dam disaster
that wiped out the town and railroad junction with FS Italia.


I doubt that was the reason for abandoning for good the railroad
connection with the upper valley.
Anyhow, Cortina should be regarded as an exceptionally good example of
city planning. There are so many neighborhoods that are impossible to
go through, unless you really know your way around; so they are
untouched by the passing traffic.
Let us just hope, God forbid!, they will never build the Autostrada di
Alemagna which would run over Cimabanche and along Vallone di Landro.

Sergio
Pisa
 




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