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Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



 
 
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  #31  
Old February 8th 18, 08:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,852
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2/8/2018 2:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote:
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking
it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too
good for it to stop working that soon.


Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep
going and going and going...


Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic
jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see
you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around.


Yes, Joerg, we know: "Danger! Danger!"

First, I've been riding regularly at night since roughly 1977. The event
you describe has never come close to happening to me. At a red light or
stop sign, the motorists behind me are coming to a stop anyway; plus my
bike has reflectors.

Second, if you're really that terrified, it's easy to put a $5 blinkie
powered by AA cells on the back of a bike. That's perfectly adequate for
the fearsom scenario you imagine.

Gawd, you're afraid of traffic! What a wimp.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #32  
Old February 8th 18, 09:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,107
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2018-02-08 12:20, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2018 2:08 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-07 07:01, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote:
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at
all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made
in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that
soon.

Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They
just keep going and going and going...

I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of
CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is
around 7 years old.

[1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof
imho.

My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb
failure in daily
use. YMMV


Ye olde 2.4W + 0.6W with a dynamo? When riding at a good
clip, meaning north of 15mph, those never lasted much longer
than a month for me. Even if they didn't blow their filament
right away the bulbs turned black inside and became dimmer
than they were already to begin with. When I was a teenager
I started equipping my bikes with what the automotive
industry already understood over 100 years ago, brighter
lights, a battery and charging system. Soon the German
police wanted to give me a ticket for "non-standard"
lighting. Luckily by that time I was a Dutch resident and
they had to let me go.

Those 2.4W bulbs were a joke. My bikes (after my teenage
years) always had better lighting than that. Now it's all
LED on my bikes but the real stuff with more than 500 lumens.


For years with a Margil cover or, after a Krygowski mod with O ring, and
without a switch (always on) I have no complaints about function or
longevity. YMMV.


How much does that O-ring reduce the drag? In the old days (with a real
power bus on the bike) I often rode the first miles with the dynamo off
because of the drag. I only put it back to the wheel when the "steam
gauge needle" (remember those?) got too close to the red range.

Last time I was in Germany they didn't have the old covers anymore and
on EBay they want a small fortune for those plastic thingies:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Margil-Dyna...0/312037616264

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #33  
Old February 8th 18, 09:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
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Posts: 248
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2018-02-07 13:05, Ian Field wrote:


"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2018-02-06 13:07, Ian Field wrote:


"sms" wrote in message
news My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking
it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too
good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have
user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to
open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least
they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board.

It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a
protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are
allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find
on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack
https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6.

I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it
in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now.

My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life
expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about.

Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or
parallel pairs A/R.


In many areas they won't let you dive into recycling bins. You'd
almost have to lie in wait, dart out and yell "Yo, don't hand over
that laptop just yet!". Otherwise when it's in there it's in there and
not coming back out.


Most don't take any notice - one that said no has the bin next to
customer service desk, reconnaissance on the way in - anything interest
and i make use of the seating and wait for the clerk to nip out.



In the country you live in maybe. In the US there may be a nasty surprise
waiting when trying to leave the store with the treasure, later followed
by a police cruiser for a ride into town but not to the destination you
intended.


Someone might drop packaged security tagged batteries in there.

I ignore any such finds, today I scored a wad of assorted button cell cards
that had half of them been used - they were clearly not straight from the
shelves to the bin.

One store has the recycle box under the display hooks - stock regularly
falls in there, it doesn't take a genius to figure out.

  #34  
Old February 8th 18, 10:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



"Tosspot" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/18 16:01, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/7/2018 12:06 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 07/02/18 03:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote:
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at
all. Taking it apart, I saw that the batteries were made
in July 2015. Not too good for it to stop working that soon.

Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They
just keep going and going and going...

I bet the lights don't, as he peers at a collection of
CYOs[1] and a recently defunct Flat-S. Tbf the Flat S is
around 7 years old.

[1] Not one lasted 18 months, they simply aren't waterproof
imho.


My regular glass bulb lamps go 6~8 years between bulb failure in daily
use. YMMV


That ain't bad, and ime I'd expect a good few years from a filament bulb.
I like LEDs because they are bright, and take little power.


With Miller bottle dynamos - the rear bulb blew on the first hill you went
down.

  #35  
Old February 8th 18, 10:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote:
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking
it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too
good for it to stop working that soon.


Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep
going and going and going...


Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic
jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see
you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around.


AFAIK: dynamo lighting is illegal in the UK for exactly that reason.

The wording leaves much ambiguities about using a dynamo to maintain
rechargeable batteries.

Its probably "technically" still an offence.

  #36  
Old February 8th 18, 10:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,107
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2018-02-08 13:59, Ian Field wrote:


"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2018-02-07 13:05, Ian Field wrote:


"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2018-02-06 13:07, Ian Field wrote:


"sms" wrote in message
news My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking
it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too
good for it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have
user-replaceable batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to
open it, and the battery pack does have a connector on it so at least
they didn't solder it directly to the printed circuit board.

It's a 2 cell 18650 pack with the batteries in parallel, and a
protection circuit board shared between the two cells. The cells are
allegedly 2800mAH, for a total of 5600mAH. The closest I could find
on-line was a 2x2600mAH parallel pack
https://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B003SH4BV6.

I moved the connector from the old pack to the new pack, plugged it
in, and closed it up. Seems to work fine now.

My favourite is recycle bin rescues - with a £0 price tag; life
expectancy isn't something to get traumatised about.

Most laptop packs are 2 or 3P-3S, you can split them up as series or
parallel pairs A/R.


In many areas they won't let you dive into recycling bins. You'd
almost have to lie in wait, dart out and yell "Yo, don't hand over
that laptop just yet!". Otherwise when it's in there it's in there and
not coming back out.

Most don't take any notice - one that said no has the bin next to
customer service desk, reconnaissance on the way in - anything interest
and i make use of the seating and wait for the clerk to nip out.



In the country you live in maybe. In the US there may be a nasty
surprise waiting when trying to leave the store with the treasure,
later followed by a police cruiser for a ride into town but not to the
destination you intended.


Someone might drop packaged security tagged batteries in there.


No, just the regular recycling stuff. It's illegal to pilfer and carry
out. Plus the store wants to avoid it for liability and fraud reasons.
All it takes is the hidden security camera trained on that bin and
they'll nail you at the entrance.


I ignore any such finds, today I scored a wad of assorted button cell
cards that had half of them been used - they were clearly not straight
from the shelves to the bin.

One store has the recycle box under the display hooks - stock regularly
falls in there, it doesn't take a genius to figure out.



Out here they are usually at the waste company's recycling centers, in
our case located behind a supermarket. They do not allow take-outs.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #37  
Old February 8th 18, 10:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news
On 2/8/2018 2:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote:
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking
it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too
good for it to stop working that soon.

Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep
going and going and going...


Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic
jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't see
you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around.


Yes, Joerg, we know: "Danger! Danger!"

First, I've been riding regularly at night since roughly 1977. The event
you describe has never come close to happening to me. At a red light or
stop sign, the motorists behind me are coming to a stop anyway; plus my
bike has reflectors.


Recently found what was left of a rear-ended bicycle chucked on the grass
verge not far from traffic lights last time I went to the next town.

  #38  
Old February 8th 18, 10:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
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Posts: 248
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



"sms" wrote in message
news
On 2/6/2018 8:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 10:52:50 -0800, sms
wrote:

My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking it
apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too good for
it to stop working that soon. These lights don't have user-replaceable
batteries, but by removing two screws I was able to open it, and the
battery pack does have a connector on it so at least they didn't solder
it directly to the printed circuit board.


I don't see a problem. If your wife used the light every day for
about 2 years, that would be 730 charge cycles. That's about the
correct lifetime for a 60% DoD (depth of discharge). See table 2:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries


Not nearly every day. I'd estimate about 200 total charge/discharge
cycles. Something failed in the battery pack because it wasn't like the
operating time was less than when new, the pack would not charge at all.


Memory effect is usual on nickel chemistry batteries that are regularly only
partly discharged - not so far heard of it on lithium.

  #39  
Old February 8th 18, 10:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries



"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 11:23:23 -0800, sms
wrote:
This is the battery in the original pack:
http://www.gebc-energy.com/Uploadfile/pdf/ICR18650/ICR18650H3.pdf


4.3V max seems rather high and unsafe.

I disassembled the pack. The batteries are completely discharged, 0V. To
me this indicates a failure of the protection circuit which normally
would not allow discharge below 2.8V.


Automatic polarity protection - it needs a little voltage to tell which way
round it is.

Passing current with a car headlamp bulb in series with a 12V battery
usually gets enough voltage lift for detection.

  #40  
Old February 8th 18, 10:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,107
Default Battery Replacement on Lights with Internal Li-Ion Batteries

On 2018-02-08 14:05, Ian Field wrote:


"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2018-02-06 18:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/6/2018 1:52 PM, sms wrote:
My wife's Lezyne Deca 1500XXL stopped taking a charge, at all. Taking
it apart, I saw that the batteries were made in July 2015. Not too
good for it to stop working that soon.

Some of my bikes have dynamos that are 30 years old. They just keep
going and going and going...


Until you get to a red traffic light, to a stop sign or into a traffic
jam. The perfect spot at night to get hit by a car driver who didn't
see you because you were on the only unlit vehicle around.


AFAIK: dynamo lighting is illegal in the UK for exactly that reason.


All it takes is you standing in the left turn lane and some soused guy
in a hurry cutting across that area, seeing you about one second before
impact. Of course, Frank won't understand that but luckily your
lawmakers did.


The wording leaves much ambiguities about using a dynamo to maintain
rechargeable batteries.

Its probably "technically" still an offence.



It used to be much worse in Germany. They did not allow having a real
power bus on a bicycle because it didn't have some StVZO number or some
such nonsense. Luckily by the time they caught me I had my residence in
the Netherlands so they had to let me ride on, not matter how peeved
they were.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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