Bayonne

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
"Raptor" wrote in message ...

Jay Pique wrote:
And yet we still have the most dominant army, economy and bike racer
in the world. Strange.

JP

You don't need to know where you are to blow something up.
You don't need to know where something came from to buy it, or sell
there. (Only the transporters need to know.)
At least one American has a pretty good grasp of (Western European)
geography.

Not saying much.




Should the electorate be informed when it comes to making decisions on
foreign policy issues? Incorrect data/beliefs leads to faulty conclusions
which leads to faulty actions.

I didn't mean to imply that it was a good thing that Americans are
ignorant of geography, among many things. But I guess I implied that it
doesn't really matter, didn't I? Regardless, I don't approve.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Eddie" wrote in message
om...
"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message et...


Should the electorate be informed when it comes to making decisions on
foreign policy issues? Incorrect data/beliefs leads to faulty
conclusions
which leads to faulty actions.


This bit of ignorance was in the news recently.


http://www.democraticunderground.com...7/23_hole.html

Some recent polls reveal 59% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein was
involved in 9/11, and 50% believe Iraqis were among the 9/11 hijackers.
41%
believe that WMD's have been found in Iraq, and 22% of Americans believe
Iraq used weapons of mass destruction during the U.S. invasion.

snipend

According to this website:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L23109558.htm

A poll of 1000 Germans by Die Zeit shows that 20% of Germans in all
age groups and "almost 1/3" of Germs below the age of 30 believes that
the United States may have sponsored the 9/11 attacks on New York and
Washington.

"Asked whether they believed that the U.S. government could have
ordered the September 11 attacks itself, 31 percent of those surveyed
under the age of 30 in the poll answered "yes", while 19 percent
overall gave the same answer."



Goddamm. Those Germans are as stupid as us Americans.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:02:22 -0600, Jay Pique
wrote:

And yet we still have the most dominant army
[military] - agreed

economy
Please don't make me laugh. The US is an economic basket
case right now. And it looks to be getting worse...

and bike racer
If you mean Armstrong, he is not the best bike racer in the
world by a long shot. Bettini, Musseuw, Ullrich,
Vinokourov, and even Hamilton have proven to be better this
year. Armstrong, however, is one of the top 3 or 4 GT
riders in the world.

"steve robertson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:02:22 -0600, Jay Pique
wrote:

And yet we still have the most dominant army
[military] - agreed

economy
Please don't make me laugh. The US is an economic basket
case right now. And it looks to be getting worse...

and bike racer
If you mean Armstrong, he is not the best bike racer in the
world by a long shot. Bettini, Musseuw, Ullrich,
Vinokourov, and even Hamilton have proven to be better this
year. Armstrong, however, is one of the top 3 or 4 GT
riders in the world.



It's debatable whether he's the best cyclist, period, but he is
unquestionably the best GT rider.

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Wrong, Henry. Cause and effect are reversed. Americans can get away
with being ignorant of foreign geography because we have the biggest
economy (and because the countries on our borders are not military
or economic threats). ...

You really are a ****ing Dumbass.
People aren't even informed about the war itself, or Al Qaeda, which 9/11
showed, is somewhat of a threat. Your analysis sucks.
These poll results have recently been in the news:
http://www.democraticunderground.com...7/23_hole.html

I know all that stuff (maybe you thought I was endorsing our
ignorance?) People are dumb, or misinformed, or lazy, or misled by
their government. How does that contradict my statement? Americans
know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they
are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance. Al Qaeda
may be a threat, but even that is abstract to most people who don't
live in New York or Washington or know someone who got killed. It
just means they have to take their shoes off at the airport X-ray
machines. I see the rest of the country driving around in their gas
guzzlers, buying on credit, and sucking down their grande lattes as if
nothing had happened.




Some recent polls reveal 59% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein was
involved in 9/11, and 50% believe Iraqis were among the 9/11 hijackers. 41%
believe that WMD's have been found in Iraq, and 22% of Americans believe
Iraq used weapons of mass destruction during the U.S. invasion

snip

"Benjamin Weiner" wrote in message
...
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Wrong, Henry. Cause and effect are reversed. Americans can get away
with being ignorant of foreign geography because we have the biggest
economy (and because the countries on our borders are not military
or economic threats). ...

You really are a ****ing Dumbass.
People aren't even informed about the war itself, or Al Qaeda, which
9/11
showed, is somewhat of a threat. Your analysis sucks.
These poll results have recently been in the news:
http://www.democraticunderground.com...7/23_hole.html

I know all that stuff (maybe you thought I was endorsing our
ignorance?) People are dumb, or misinformed, or lazy, or misled by
their government. How does that contradict my statement? Americans
know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they
are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance. Al Qaeda
may be a threat, but even that is abstract to most people who don't
live in New York or Washington or know someone who got killed. It
just means they have to take their shoes off at the airport X-ray
machines. I see the rest of the country driving around in their gas
guzzlers, buying on credit, and sucking down their grande lattes as if
nothing had happened.



Dumbass -

Ignorance leads to faulty conclusions which leads to faulty action.

There is a Pax Americana afoot now, but it will be a short-lived empire
indeed without a well-chosen, wise and thoughtful path.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 05:44:09 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
wrote:


It's debatable whether he's the best cyclist, period, but he is
unquestionably the best GT rider.


Armstrong has only won one GT. You may think that the Tour
is the most important race, but the Vuelta and the Giro are
very hard. In fact they (especially the Vuelta) are
probably less dependent on the team and more on the rider.

Armstrong has not won either, and has not even contested the
Giro (and the Vuelta only once). Ullrich has contested all
three, and has won two of them so far.

"...unquestionably"? Perhaps you are letting your
nationalistic fantasies overwhelm your common sense.

"steve robertson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 05:44:09 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
wrote:


It's debatable whether he's the best cyclist, period, but he is
unquestionably the best GT rider.


Armstrong has only won one GT. You may think that the Tour
is the most important race, but the Vuelta and the Giro are
very hard. In fact they (especially the Vuelta) are
probably less dependent on the team and more on the rider.

Armstrong has not won either, and has not even contested the
Giro (and the Vuelta only once). Ullrich has contested all
three, and has won two of them so far.

"...unquestionably"? Perhaps you are letting your
nationalistic fantasies overwhelm your common sense.



Dumbass -

The Tour is the hardest one to win.

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Americans
know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they
are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance.

Dumbass -
Ignorance leads to faulty conclusions which leads to faulty action.
There is a Pax Americana afoot now, but it will be a short-lived empire
indeed without a well-chosen, wise and thoughtful path.

I agree with this. You are talking about facts: Americans are, on
average, ignorant of foreign affairs. I am talking about the
mechanism: why Americans are ignorant (because they suffer little
harmful consequence from it, _in the short term_, so have no incentive
to learn. Hey, it's a free market in ignorance!) Ignorance is not
the same as arrogance (often it grows out of naivete) but it allows
the knowledgeable but arrogant among us to dream of their Pax
Americana. They should reread "The Best and the Brightest" maybe.

"Benjamin Weiner" wrote in message
...
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Americans
know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they
are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance.

Dumbass -
Ignorance leads to faulty conclusions which leads to faulty action.
There is a Pax Americana afoot now, but it will be a short-lived empire
indeed without a well-chosen, wise and thoughtful path.

I agree with this. You are talking about facts: Americans are, on
average, ignorant of foreign affairs.



Dumbass -

If someone doesn't know where the Pacific Ocean is, how the hell are they
supposed to *not* be ignorant of foreign affairs?