Jobst

On 9/2/2017 3:46 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 21:28:29 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/1/2017 6:52 PM, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:40:49 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 6:08:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 2:01:22 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I've noticed many times that people who disagree with Tom tend to give
links to information. But Tom tends to give pronouncements of things he
believes he remembers, with no corresponding links or documentation.

I could tell about my Canadian relatives and their successful cancer
treatments, but that anecdote wouldn't matter to Tom.

Instead, I'm waiting for data on food prices for 2006 and 2016. Come on,
Tom! It's your move! :-)

You know, the last time I said that on a news group several people like you told me I was full of **** and several nurses from the northwest and several more from around Toronto said the same thing as I did and then a patient popped in with his experience which was a 12 month wait for a cancer that gave him a maximum lifespan of three months. And it was just a tumor sitting on his heart. So he came to the US and it was gone in one operation and a month of chemo.

But you want something from a site that you'll believe. And that includes a site that proved to be almost 300% incorrect. But IT'S IN WRITING. Your age is really beginning to show.

Good example! Another anecdote that you believe you remember. No link to online
information.

Since you like anecdotes: My Canadian relative had to wait months for his wife's
cancer treatment. He complained. But as it turned out, the doctors were right,
the cure was complete, and it seems to have cost less than American treatment
would have cost.

Regarding Canada, Jay gave this: http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

There's also this: https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/...c-health-care/

And this: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11..._13057392.html

But we have at least a couple Canadians posting here. We should let them speak,
I guess.

All of which has nothing to do with your previous claims of astronomical
increases in food prices between 2006 and 2016. I posted data showing that was
likely false. You've posted nothing but "memories," Tom. Can you _never_ find
data to back your alleged memories?

Frank - you really are one of those women's private parts.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...or-health-care

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/20...s-health-care/

Here is one of the far left wing sources that you prefer:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0db570d3778ff

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...adian-patients

All of this was readily available and if you didn't want to believe me you COULD have looked it up yourself. But instead you prefer being a F-ing asshole and pretending the world isn't like it is.

First, nobody has denied that some Canadians come to the U.S. for some
procedures - just as some Americans go to Mexico or Costa Rica for some
procedures. But when you read articles like those, watch for words like
"increasingly" - meaning more than before... but exactly how much more?
What are the numbers?

"Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians’ Use Of Health Care Services In The
United States" Katz et. al,
http://content.healthaffairs.org/con...3/19.full.html says in part
"Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception
that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States.
Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible
relative to the use of care by Canadians at home."

Note that one of your sources does rate Canada's health care pretty low
- but still better than the U.S. "The Commonwealth Fund, a U.S. think
tank, released a report two years ago ranking Canada 10th out of 11
wealthy nations in terms of health care. Only the United States fared
worse. The report, based largely on satisfaction surveys by patients and
health-care providers, placed Canada last in timeliness of care. The
United Kingdom was ranked No. 1"

Another of your sources, talking about a Canadian who went to Detroit
for an angioplasty procedure, said this: "... [the Canadian system] is
working. He received his care, the Canadian health system paid for it,
and he is alive and well today. Had he been a citizen of Detroit, he
would owe the hospital all of that money plus interest, would have had
to sell his house and declared bankruptcy."

And of course, it's not just Canadians that go elsewhere for care. I
worked with an engineer who had retained his Hungarian citizenship.
Whenever he needed anything more serious than treatment for the flu, he
flew back to Hungary because he knew the care was excellent and
essentially free.


I have a good friend who was born and educated in Hungary and then
became a dissident and escaped and worked in the West until he
retired, a few years ago. He then returned to live in Hungary. He
tells me that you can hardly get a dental appoint now for the Germans
flocking for the cheap dental care.

In fact he wrote ( what I think was a joke ) saying the under the
Communists you had to bribe someone to get dental care and now under
the democrats you have to bribe someone to get on the waiting list :-)

Exactly.
For many years I included in annual W2s, "Under the Soviet
system, a man's paid only half of what he's worth but here
in the US, the government takes half off the top."


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 6:28:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
First, nobody has denied that some Canadians come to the U.S. for some
procedures

I don't believe that we need go any further since you wanted your citations, you got your citation and then deny them.

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 6:41:42 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

That may have been true many years ago but is no longer true today.
(and all you had to do is look)

See:
http://www.whatclinic.com/dentists/t...dental-x-rayst
or
http://www.bangkokdentalcenter.com/t...logy-xray.html
or
https://www.samitivejhospitals.com/e...dental-clinic/
or
https://www.gracedentalclinic.com/technology-eng.html

Note: the first site quotes a price for panoramic x-rays, in English
aimed at foreigners, as US$1,000. The Thai price is traditionally
about 50%

I might add that Thailand seems to be quite well known for cosmetic
surgery. It is said that one can fly from America, stay in a posh
hotel, have the operation(s) and fly home cheaper then the surgery
costs alone in the U.S.

I have also read that Thailand is far and away the most experienced in
penis re-attachments. See:
http://www.glorysurgery.com/surgery-...nis-video-240/
http://tinyurl.com/yc6tgqk2
Or even
http://tinyurl.com/yc6tgqk2

John - remember that I developed medical instruments for years. Your invention of advanced medical treatment because one of the instruments I mentioned is available at one clinic is reaching so far that you aren't even on the same Earth.

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:03:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

You quite obviously don't know what you are talking about as (1) a
doctor in government service in Thailand make a very comfortable
living and (2) those that work in private hospitals make a fortune and
(3) a great many doctors that work in government hospitals have
private clinics which they open in the evenings.

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

In the past many doctors in Thailand were trained in England or the
U.S. and if a specialist were usually "board certified" in the country
that they trained in. Now:

There are 22 medical schools located in the country, and the majority
of them are public and state-funded. The first medical school in
Thailand was founded in the late 1880s at the Siriraj Hospital, a
teaching hospital that remains one of the most highly reputable
medical schools in the region.

Once again you demonstrate that you're not even in the same universe. And American neurologist makes around $6,000 for a 15 minute consultation. In a few hours he can buy a new car. After taxes.

Tell us about this great wage Thai doctors make under socialized medicine.

On 9/2/2017 9:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/1/2017 8:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Some people can't seem to grasp the fundamental idea of
insurance. Everyone accepts a small penalty (the premiums
they pay) in order to prevent having to endure a large
penalty - i.e. catastrophic personal expenses, in this case,
medical expenses.

The insurance company is betting you're going to remain
pretty healthy. You're betting you're going to get terribly
sick. You bet against the insurance company, and you hope
the insurance company wins.

People like Tom who don't like the system have an
alternative: Just don't buy any insurance. If necessary,
move to some country with nothing like Medicare. Just pile
up your own money in savings, and bet on your own health.
Bet that you'll never need a $100,000 medical treatment to
save your life.

I'm sure it can work, because the insurance companies have
bet on your health, and they've been winning big! They've
collected enough money to build really impressive
skyscrapers for their headquarters.

And hey, for most of my life I never bought comprehensive
insurance even on brand new cars. I won that bet, too!



You're describing a classic insurance model which no longer exists. In
principle, the ancient fire companies collected from building owners who
then displayed the fire badge on the edifice. No badge, no water. Good
system!

Good system unless you had the badge in Chicago in 1871, and the six
houses surrounding yours had no badge. Population immunity is very
useful in preventing epidemics or conflagrations.

In reality it's now more like Federal flood insurance...

Since I'm totally free of any flooding possibility, I don't have much
interest in flood insurance. However, I know that almost any
administrative system suffers complication, inefficiency and
incompetence when it gets large enough.

Which brings us back to a regulated health insurance cabal. I don't have
a simple answer because the various interests are convoluted, entrenched
and too often crooked.

As they are with many other large administrative systems. However:

I don't think we should ignore the fact that all westernized nations
face similar problems and decisions regarding health care. And we should
not ignore the fact that (almost?) all of them have done a better job
than the U.S. when making those decisions and solving those problems.

The data is very clear. Yet we have fundamentalists like Tom ignoring
tons of data on overall results, and instead cherry-picking anecdotes
and special cases.

It's kind of like the last fans of the "ordinaries" or high-wheel
bicycles. "But real men don't need to stop quickly! And chains cause
friction! Nothing can be more efficient than direct drive!"

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 6:09:05 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/1/2017 8:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2017 8:14 PM, jbeattie wrote:

You have a Medicare Advantage plan which, by the way, is
much like the insurance scheme for everyone in Germany and
(sort of) Japan. The bulk of premium is paid by the
government with a "spread" paid by the policy holder. The
typical Advantage plan in Oregon has better benefits than
most employer-provided group plans. It also sweeps in
Coverage D and provides a good pharmacy benefit.

But its socialized insurance. The employed and
self-employed (me) are paying the lion's share of your
"premium."

See
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...ow-it-financed


The way Medicare Advantage works is that CMS pays a
capitated fee to the HMO/PPO based on a "benchmark" for
your county, and your HMO/PPO charges you the spread to
cover the cost of estimated plan benefits (so called
"bid"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Advantage
The benchmark number varies, but yours is probably in the
$800-900 range -- meaning your "true" premium is
subsidized to the tune of $800-900 per month. That's
socialized insurance. YOU ARE A COMMUNIST, COMRADE!

Time to turn in your teabag. Why should I pay for YOUR
insurance? I'm going to quit paying my self-employment tax
so I don't have to pay for YOUR insurance!

Some people can't seem to grasp the fundamental idea of
insurance. Everyone accepts a small penalty (the premiums
they pay) in order to prevent having to endure a large
penalty - i.e. catastrophic personal expenses, in this case,
medical expenses.

The insurance company is betting you're going to remain
pretty healthy. You're betting you're going to get terribly
sick. You bet against the insurance company, and you hope
the insurance company wins.

People like Tom who don't like the system have an
alternative: Just don't buy any insurance. If necessary,
move to some country with nothing like Medicare. Just pile
up your own money in savings, and bet on your own health.
Bet that you'll never need a $100,000 medical treatment to
save your life.

I'm sure it can work, because the insurance companies have
bet on your health, and they've been winning big! They've
collected enough money to build really impressive
skyscrapers for their headquarters.

And hey, for most of my life I never bought comprehensive
insurance even on brand new cars. I won that bet, too!



You're describing a classic insurance model which no longer
exists. In principle, the ancient fire companies collected
from building owners who then displayed the fire badge on
the edifice. No badge, no water. Good system!

In reality it's now more like Federal flood insurance which
has premiums people bitch about, limits which keep most
businesses and many homes well below actual losses, no
private insurance available, ridiculous administrative costs
and of course it loses a few billion dollars every year.

Seeing the utterly indefensible screwups in that program,
Florida under a previous idiot governor duplicated it for
the state. Having made fish soup from an aquarium, no one
knows how to get out of this but the premiums are too low,
the costs are too high, the reserves are inadequate for a
normal hurricane season (which we haven't had in 8~9
years)and of course normal weather events with normal losses
will return. The State of Florida and its citizens are
directly and fully liable. Ouch.

Which brings us back to a regulated health insurance cabal.
I don't have a simple answer because the various interests
are convoluted, entrenched and too often crooked. This is of
course utterly unrelated to health or medical services in
the same way that education budgets are unrelated to
education[1]. The system feeds itself; you are the product!

[1] The Last Honest Man, Art Shanker of AFT often ended
press conferences with his famous quip, "When students pay
union dues I will care about students."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Unfortunately you cannot convince a socialist that they ought to pay their own way and then know what they are getting. Instead we end up with Frank telling us that a few Canadians come to American hospitals simply because they want faster service and John telling us that Thailand doctors make a great living.

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 6:16:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/1/2017 9:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet.. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

Life expectancy in the world's nations seems to be the highest in
Japan with a (combined male/female) life expectancy of 83.7 years.
Switzerland is next with 83.4 years, then Singapore with 83.1.

The U.K. is #20 with 81.2 years and the U.S. is #31 with 79.3, which
is between Costa Rica with 70.6 and Cuba with 79.1.

Life expectancy at birth (2015) looks even bleaker:
Hong Kong #1 with 83.74 years, than Japan with 83.31, and Italy with
82.84 while the U.S. is #43 with 78.88.


Tell us more about the competent doctors.



We USAians drive more (miles/hours per year), drive faster,
do more drugs with or without alcohol and engage in other
oft-fatal behaviors more than many populations.

We lose roughly 20,000 more people to ODs than to car wrecks
the last few years. Oh, you want to bring in health care? We
also kill more people in hospital-acquired infection than
car wrecks, too. Not 'infection' but _hospital acquired_
infection. They're pros!

And we wouldn't have it any other way!

Absolutely every hospital everywhere is a den of infection. To pretend that there isn't a strong chance of getting a hospital acquired infection quite easily is dreaming. This is why they are pumping everyone full of antibiotics all the time.

On 9/2/2017 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 6:16:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/1/2017 9:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

Life expectancy in the world's nations seems to be the highest in
Japan with a (combined male/female) life expectancy of 83.7 years.
Switzerland is next with 83.4 years, then Singapore with 83.1.

The U.K. is #20 with 81.2 years and the U.S. is #31 with 79.3, which
is between Costa Rica with 70.6 and Cuba with 79.1.

Life expectancy at birth (2015) looks even bleaker:
Hong Kong #1 with 83.74 years, than Japan with 83.31, and Italy with
82.84 while the U.S. is #43 with 78.88.


Tell us more about the competent doctors.



We USAians drive more (miles/hours per year), drive faster,
do more drugs with or without alcohol and engage in other
oft-fatal behaviors more than many populations.

We lose roughly 20,000 more people to ODs than to car wrecks
the last few years. Oh, you want to bring in health care? We
also kill more people in hospital-acquired infection than
car wrecks, too. Not 'infection' but _hospital acquired_
infection. They're pros!

And we wouldn't have it any other way!

Absolutely every hospital everywhere is a den of infection. To pretend that there isn't a strong chance of getting a hospital acquired infection quite easily is dreaming. This is why they are pumping everyone full of antibiotics all the time.


Oh, hospital-acquired infection is roughly 2 million people
per year in USA. It's the 90,00 actual deaths which raise
one's eyebrow.

At any rate, lower overall age at death does not necessarily
indicate an insurance problem because the populations and
their behaviors are not controlled for huge variables.

One might actually posit that the screwy insurance system
("I paid something, so we're going to the ER for every
sniffle and scrape" even though services dwarf premiums)
increases the problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/2/2017 10:47 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 6:16:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/1/2017 9:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires donated bone material to achieve? That requires three different medications before and afterwards top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the USA is staggering. And these will often be in a private doctor's office. These are not available in Thailand any more than they are in European villages or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical tourism business. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU

MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/ Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the cost of medical care is regulated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on on the internet. Get a cheap one for home: https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE

Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of which have socialized medicine and/or socialized insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long and useful lives. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They were developed to display interior muscle composition and they really aren't very effective without contrast material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per 100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000 in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go through years and years of training to make almost nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

Life expectancy in the world's nations seems to be the highest in
Japan with a (combined male/female) life expectancy of 83.7 years.
Switzerland is next with 83.4 years, then Singapore with 83.1.

The U.K. is #20 with 81.2 years and the U.S. is #31 with 79.3, which
is between Costa Rica with 70.6 and Cuba with 79.1.

Life expectancy at birth (2015) looks even bleaker:
Hong Kong #1 with 83.74 years, than Japan with 83.31, and Italy with
82.84 while the U.S. is #43 with 78.88.


Tell us more about the competent doctors.



We USAians drive more (miles/hours per year), drive faster,
do more drugs with or without alcohol and engage in other
oft-fatal behaviors more than many populations.

We lose roughly 20,000 more people to ODs than to car wrecks
the last few years. Oh, you want to bring in health care? We
also kill more people in hospital-acquired infection than
car wrecks, too. Not 'infection' but _hospital acquired_
infection. They're pros!

And we wouldn't have it any other way!

Absolutely every hospital everywhere is a den of infection. To pretend that there isn't a strong chance of getting a hospital acquired infection quite easily is dreaming. This is why they are pumping everyone full of antibiotics all the time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-...b_5266944.html



--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/2/2017 10:34 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/2/2017 10:47 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 6:16:36 AM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/1/2017 9:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:10:59 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 9:13:45 AM UTC-7,
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 7:39:26 PM UTC-7,
John B. wrote:

Are you telling me that a Thai can go to a clinic
and have a $500,000 panoramic x-ray taken of his
jaw? How many of these clinics are there? How many
doctors trained in doing a sinus lift that requires
donated bone material to achieve? That requires
three different medications before and afterwards
top stave off infections?

Yup. Anything that the doctor orders. Specifically a
panoramic x-ray I
do not know but if the government hospitals have the
device then yes.
free.

You don't seem to be following me John. The numbers
and costs of spectacular medical instruments in the
USA is staggering. And these will often be in a
private doctor's office. These are not available in
Thailand any more than they are in European villages
or even in Great Britain outside of the major cities.

The weakness of socialized medicine is that it cannot
afford the advancements.

Hmmm. Seems like Thailand has a thriving MRI medical
tourism business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-nt4-tavqXU


MRI units are more common in Japan than the US.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ts-by-country/
Note that Japan has "socialized insurance" and the
cost of medical care is regulated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health...ystem_in_Japan

Panoramic x-ray machines are mundane. You can buy on
on the internet. Get a cheap one for home:
https://www.dentalplanet.com/x-ray-e...CABEgLdvPD_BwE


Amazingly, people in other countries -- almost all of
which have socialized medicine and/or socialized
insurance with highly regulated medicine -- live long
and useful lives.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunr.../#7a03c90e576f
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publ.../mirror-mirror
We're dead last compared to a dozen commie-socialist
countries.

Jay - does looking at the seating capacity of the
waiting area for that MRI clinic not ring a very loud
bell? And exactly what do you think that MRI's do? They
were developed to display interior muscle composition
and they really aren't very effective without contrast
material injected into the proper area.

There are two and a half times as many doctors per
100,000 people in the US as in Japan. Three times what
Great Britain has. Twenty times the doctors per 100,000
in Thailand.

What in God's name makes you think that people go
through years and years of training to make almost
nothing under socialized medicine?

No matter HOW cheap it is, if you cannot find a
competent doctor to treat you you have nothing.

Life expectancy in the world's nations seems to be the
highest in
Japan with a (combined male/female) life expectancy of
83.7 years.
Switzerland is next with 83.4 years, then Singapore with
83.1.

The U.K. is #20 with 81.2 years and the U.S. is #31 with
79.3, which
is between Costa Rica with 70.6 and Cuba with 79.1.

Life expectancy at birth (2015) looks even bleaker:
Hong Kong #1 with 83.74 years, than Japan with 83.31,
and Italy with
82.84 while the U.S. is #43 with 78.88.


Tell us more about the competent doctors.



We USAians drive more (miles/hours per year), drive faster,
do more drugs with or without alcohol and engage in other
oft-fatal behaviors more than many populations.

We lose roughly 20,000 more people to ODs than to car wrecks
the last few years. Oh, you want to bring in health care? We
also kill more people in hospital-acquired infection than
car wrecks, too. Not 'infection' but _hospital acquired_
infection. They're pros!

And we wouldn't have it any other way!

Absolutely every hospital everywhere is a den of
infection. To pretend that there isn't a strong chance of
getting a hospital acquired infection quite easily is
dreaming. This is why they are pumping everyone full of
antibiotics all the time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-...b_5266944.html





OK, there's that.
But roughly 90,000 people went into a hospital last year and
were killed there by hospital acquired infection.

Unlike Black Helicopters, that cannot be mitigated by a
tinfoil hat.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971