Do tires make a difference in ride feel?

same reasoning applies to light riders? less squish or deformation
aligns within the designer's model?
what's a normal rider's weight range? hmmmmmmm
120-165?

Ivar Hesselager writes:

Conti's GP 3000 are not only famous of their vulnerability to
sidewall cuts, but also of their good clincher-like feel.

This is a great collection, supple, lively, good feel, what's next in
qualitative assessment of tires. This goes back to the dark ages of
bicycle lore, or maybe this is the dark age of bicycle technology, aka
fashion.

If the roads you are riding give you only the benefits and not the
problems of the GP 3000, you have a good reason to stick to one of
the best tires on the market, regarding feel.

Furthermore these tires are on sale most places these days, because
they are going out of the market soon, being substituted by GP 4000.

Suggestively tough names like Armadillo, Vector-pro, GP 3000, along
with colored rubber is a great skid backward for tires. Judging by
how the roads are full of huge black, black windowed SUV's with four
exhaust pipes that rumble to match the beat of the knobby tires,
society cares more for appearance than ever. The more one spends, the
better one stands among his peers.

I'm an old middleweight and (over)cautious rider - and I like the
feel of the Conti "4-Season" 25 mm version the best, because it has
better traction and makes me dare going faster through the curves -
especially on wet roads. And it also has reinforced sidewalls,
which means a lot on the roads I ride on.

Where do you sense the "better traction" of these tires? I can't
visualize and old middleweight in hard cornering at the limit of
traction.

But if I was riding your roads I would stick to those GP 3000's as
long as they are available.

Ivar of Denmark

In Denmark? I wasn't aware that American consumer syndrome had
arrived there yet. Roads are roads around the world. The way you
tell it, there are special tires for each nation's roads. Tires are
manufactured everywhere in the world and have no national features.

Jobst Brandt

Dans le message de ,
a
réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
Ivar Hesselager writes:
Ivar of Denmark

In Denmark? I wasn't aware that American consumer syndrome had
arrived there yet. Roads are roads around the world. The way you
tell it, there are special tires for each nation's roads. Tires are
manufactured everywhere in the world and have no national features.

Jobst Brandt

He just didn't want you getting hopelessly confused with Ivar of
Bedford-Stuy.
He seems to have missed the mark.
--
Sandy

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].

So Jobst, what do you ride on? The cheapest tires you can find, or is
there some factor in the tires that is not all marketing? I am
serious.

Ted.

Ivar Hesselager writes:

You do remember me passing you on the way down from Timmelsjoch to
Soelden last summer, dont you?

I said: Guten Tag,
You said: It's Nachmittag.
I said: Nice looking Tank you have there.
You said: Nein, it's a Fahrrad.
I said: It doesn't look like a Ferrari to me.
You said: Watch out,there is Wasser on the road
I said: No problem, I have 4-Season tires on
You said: Watch out, they are a commercial trick
I said: You must be Jobst the Wheelman
You said: It's an unproven theory

Do you remember me now?

Nice imagination you have. I haven't been in that area for a couple
of years and then not alone. The silly exchange you scripted doesn't
reflect my encounters with other riders, here or anywhere else. Your
use of Pidgin German doesn't make it any more credible.

Where do you sense the "better traction" of these tires? I can't
visualize and old middleweight in hard cornering at the limit of
traction.

In the Tirolian alps I sense it. Intensely. We are quite a few
grumpy old men struggling up and tumbling down the mountain roads
around Oetztal. In trying to keep up with the speed of the
Italianos Vecchios, I push my traction, my courage and my luck to
the limit.

Sounds dangerous.

But if I was riding your roads I would stick to those GP 3000's as
long as they are available.

Ivar of Denmark

In Denmark? I wasn't aware that American consumer syndrome had
arrived there yet. Roads are roads around the world. The way you
tell it, there are special tires for each nation's roads. Tires
are manufactured everywhere in the world and have no national
features.

Flintstone is an abundant natural ressource here in the unspoiled
viking reservation. Flint is good for cutting whales and bears skin
- but it also cuts the sidewalls of the GP3000's without mercy.

Oh! How does it get on the sidewalls when riding on roads. If you
must ride off road in rocky terrain, I suggest you use a suitably fat
tire with sidewall rubber. We were discussing road tires.

Outside the reservation there are roads without flintstones and some
of them are considered safe for GP3000's. Fortunately our fine
German neighbours make 18 different brands of Continental tires for
racing bicycles alone, so there is one for every type of road.

I haven't found many riders who speak well of Continental tires and
their sidewalls. I suspect those who ride them around here got them
on a special offer rather than choosing them for their durability or
other performance features.

Flint sounds good but there are many sharp rocks on roads as well as
beer bottles that cut tires excellently, especially when wet.

I trade 20 oysters and a flint knife for a pair of 4-Season tires.
Ofcourse we don't take no stinking yankee dollars around here.

Hope to pass you again on Jaufenpass next summer. ;-)

I haven't been on the Jaufen pass in many years. You must be thinking
of someone else.

Ivar the Gruesome

Jobst Brandt

Ted who? writes:

So Jobst, what do you ride on? The cheapest tires you can find, or
is there some factor in the tires that is not all marketing? I am
serious.

I have a stash of light colored bare-wall Avocet ROAD 20 tires that
meet my expectation although not as good as the original ones made by
IRC. I have been riding Campionato del Mundo Clement tubulars, then
Specialized Touring II tires that had to be rotated on 3000km trips in
the Alps, and then Avocet tires that were made to my preferences.
That is why there is a picture of "Tire testing" on Sheldon's web
site.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

Jobst Brandt

In article ,
wrote:

Certainly tires make a difference in ride feel. The stiffness of
the sidewalls is a good measure of how much drag you'll feel from
the tire. I had a set of cheapo Vittorias and it felt like I was
dragging an anchor. A good, supple sidewall (with the proper
pressure) and the whole bike will feel more lively.

You mean RR is higher with thicker sidewalls (lower TPI) but the ride
comfort is not perceptibly different, these damping losses being so
small it takes careful measurement to characterize the difference in
RR. You can most likely hear the difference because acoustic damping
is significant for sound but that's literally in the noise for ride
comfort.

A few years ago, I recall riding a tire (on the front wheel), IIRC it
was a Panaracer with a raised tread pattern, that would emit a
distinctively different tone when cornering. Strictly psychological, as
the tire displayed no aberrant cornering traits, yet I found it
unsettling enough to swap it out.

Luke

wrote:
Ivar Hesselager writes:
Flintstone is an abundant natural ressource here in the unspoiled
viking reservation. Flint is good for cutting whales and bears skin
- but it also cuts the sidewalls of the GP3000's without mercy.

Oh! How does it get on the sidewalls when riding on roads. If you
must ride off road in rocky terrain, I suggest you use a suitably fat
tire with sidewall rubber. We were discussing road tires.

Flint sounds good but there are many sharp rocks on roads as well as
beer bottles that cut tires excellently, especially when wet.

Here in the hinterlands that vikings never bothered to conquer, the
problem is crushed rock they use on multi-use tracks in winter (the MUTs
have it November through April). Crushing rock left over from road
works or building sites is sounder environmentally but the sharp flints
unfortunately cut racing tires. I know for sure they caused two
punctures, since the flint was still stuck through the casing.

I don't know whether the flints need an existing cut to work through the
tire casing or not, but the only remedy is to put some fatter tires on,
as Jobst says. The tires with protective strips haven't worked for me.

Jan Lindström

wrote:
I haven't found many riders who speak well of Continental tires and
their sidewalls. I suspect those who ride them around here got them
on a special offer rather than choosing them for their durability or
other performance features.


I'll speak well of them. Never had a sidewall issue - true, I don't
ride too many gravel roads, but some and when I do it's usually on
Continentals. I've run Ultra 2000s on my foul weather and commuting
bike for years. They seem to last longer than others I've used on the
same bike - I chose them for their durability, no special offers. Just
got a pair of the new Ultra Gatorskins; 170tpi - definitely not kite
string.

The one and only fatal (for the tire) sidewall failure I've ever had was
a Michelin Pro Race when I hit a rock taking a corner at speed -
probably would have done the same to any other light tire. Well I take
it back, I have had cheapie generic (P) tires whose casings just rotted
like compost in far too short a time.

snip
In Denmark? I wasn't aware that American consumer syndrome had
arrived there yet. Roads are roads around the world. The way you
tell it, there are special tires for each nation's roads. Tires are
manufactured everywhere in the world and have no national features.

Jobst Brandt

Roads are roads, but there can be large differences in the materials
used to make those roads, and large differences in what sort of debris
is strewn around on those roads, often with national and/or geographic
boundaries. This can make a difference as to what sort of tires are
more or less durable. Denamrk is a wind-blown sand pancake with no
winter and smooth roads, so I thought flats would be a non-issue there
compared to the uncivilized conditions we have here in Norway a few
hundred kilometers away with pot holes, frost heaves, gravel, etc. Boy
was I wrong. The famous flint of Denmark gets ground up somehow into
tiny knives that work their way through tires. If I lived in Denmark I
very well might use entirely different tires than I do in Norway.

Joseph

PS: Ivar, I was just kidding about Denmark. It's a great place to ride
(and live I imagine), apart from the flint.