randonneur

On 5/27/2018 9:16 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:29:09 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

Why not tow a trailer?

http://www.bobgear.com/bike-trailers/yak

No need for special racks and bags on the bike. By swapping the cranks
and cassette, I could use my otherwise regular road bike to go touring!

Yes Bob trailers work for touring with a road racing bicycle. Some people love them. But they have their downsides too. The bike handles very differently. And the trailer weighs about 15 pounds all by itself empty. Far more than the weight of racks on a touring bike. And the plastic bag on the Bob weighs more than the four panniers too. And its easy to carry too much with a Bob because you have all this space to carry stuff. Lot of people make the error of filling up every spare space. And there is the problem of transporting the Bob trailer. Bikes in the past flew as free luggage. Not anymore. But now after paying for the bike box, you ALSO have to pay for the trailer box too. Paying on both ends of your trip. Assuming your trips require airlines.


All of that is true, but trailers shine in a group where
riders alternate pulling cargo. Neither good nor bad, sorta
variable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
:On 5/27/2018 9:16 PM, wrote:
: On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:29:09 PM UTC-5, James wrote:
:
: Why not tow a trailer?
:
: http://www.bobgear.com/bike-trailers/yak
:
: No need for special racks and bags on the bike. By swapping the cranks
: and cassette, I could use my otherwise regular road bike to go touring!
:
: Yes Bob trailers work for touring with a road racing bicycle. Some people love them. But they have their downsides too. The bike handles very differently. And the trailer weighs about 15 pounds all by itself empty. Far more than the weight of racks on a touring bike. And the plastic bag on the Bob weighs more than the four panniers too. And its easy to carry too much with a Bob because you have all this space to carry stuff. Lot of people make the error of filling up every spare space. And there is the problem of transporting the Bob trailer. Bikes in the past flew as free luggage. Not anymore. But now after paying for the bike box, you ALSO have to pay for the trailer box too. Paying on both ends of your trip. Assuming your trips require airlines.
:

:All of that is true, but trailers shine in a group where
:riders alternate pulling cargo. Neither good nor bad, sorta
:variable.

At one of the rest stops of Bike the Drive yesterday, I saw a couple
who were swapping the kiddie trailer from one bike to the other. I
got to haul my daughter the whole way (in a Yepp seat on the rack.),
~40 miles. Ooof.



--
Movable type was evidently a fad. --Amanda Walker

On 5/27/2018 12:48 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Tim McNamara writes:

Great only too expensive, especially compared to
the Fuji and in particular the amount of money in
my wallet. Why do they do randonneurs with 32 tires
anyway?!

Comfort, for one thing. The standard brevet lengths
are 200, 300, 400, 600, 1000 and 1200 km. All with
time limits, checkpoints, etc. The extra comfort
afforded by the larger tires becomes very helpful
after 8, 10, 50 hours in the saddle.

Ha ha Definitely. But why not 40 or 47 tires then?
They are not that much slower/heavier or less aero
than 32 and even more comfortable.

I've seen more than a few 40ish tires on randonneurs* at brevets in
Oregon. Seems a bit excessive to me for a brevet, but I recognize some
of my preferences seem bizarre to others. Vive la difference.

Especially with
a loaded bike I think 32 is too thin. But if that's
the way it is I'm not letting it stop me from going,
of course.

As noted by others, some bike frames won't clear wider tires; a defect
in design for a touring* bike, but there it is.

40 years ago in the US, touring bikes came with 27" wheels (as in
"630-32" vs "622-32"), and few tires wider than 32mm (1-1/4") were
available, nor would they fit most frames. Thousands of folks found
32mm sufficient for thousands of miles with heavy loads, but again,
alternatives were few back then. I'm inclined to agree that a wider
tire would have made things better.

Mark J.

* Notes: I use "touring bike" to mean a bike intended for multi-day
trips carrying camping gear. I use "randonneur" or "rando bike" to mean
a bike intended for brevets - 200 to 1200 km mostly self-supported rides
carrying the bare minimum for survival and ride completion.

On 5/26/2018 2:39 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 1:24:10 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I usually carried 30 - 35 pounds total when traveling alone. That included
tent, sleeping bag, maybe a camp stove and some food. I always thought I took
too much, but I was never able to get my load much under 30 pounds, unless
it was "credit card touring," staying entirely in motels.

Going coast to coast, I think I carried 40 pounds on my bike. But some of that
was stuff I carried for my ladies. It also included that backpacking stove
and food, which in retrospect was silly. They have restaurants.

- Frank Krygowski

When I hit the heat on the other side of the Rockies (going east), I mailed half of my gear back home -- including my rain gear. You don't need it for the Mid-West, mid-day deluge. Nothing will prevent you from getting soaked, but then you dry out in about ten minutes. My stove went back, too. It was too hot to cook.

-- Jay Beattie.

I never got far east of the Rockies, so the nights were cold, and I
carried a lot of stuff I shouldn't have, so my bike + equipment weighed
north of 100 lbs. That did include cooking gear, though, as I had no
budget for restaurants, which raises the cost/day very rapidly.

I do things radically differently now in my older, more comfortable
years. Back then I was a bit of an ox, in more ways than one.

Mark J.

On 5/26/2018 8:43 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I'm not a cook, but I'd often take the backpacking stove and some simple
boil-and-eat food just in case I was nowhere near a restaurant.

Many years ago, I rode across Ohio west to east (following the Cardinal
Trail) with an older retired friend. We carried no food. Now in the
busiest times, rural western Ohio has very few places serving food; but
this was Labor Day, and we kept finding the few restaurants were closed.

One place that was open was a VFW hall - that is, Veterans of Foreign
Wars. I told my friend "Hey, you can get us in there! You're a veteran
of World War II!" And he really was. Trouble was, he fought for the
other side!

He had been captured and taken to New York State as a prisoner of war. I
think it's to our country's credit that he was treated well enough that
he decided to return and live in America after the war.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

On another cross-Ohio solo trip, I came up with what I thought was a
brilliant solution for emergency food. Instead of a backpacking stove, I
threw in one of those plug-in immersion heaters, the kind used to heat
cups of coffee. And I threw in a freeze dried backpacking meal.

Sure enough, in western Ohio I was out of daylight and camped at a state
park. I got a site with electricity, poured water into the food's foil
pack and heated it with the immersion heater. Not gourmet fare, but
plenty tasty enough, and very light weight!

I'm no cook either, but I have some survival skills.

Standard bike-packing dinner:
Materials are available in most tiny rural grocery stores,
Quantities for one rider:
(1) box a macaroni-and-cheese dinner (dry pasta with cheese powder)
(1) small can of tuna or chicken
(1-3) cans of peas other vegetables, kidney beans, garbanzo
beans/chickpeas. Substitute whatever the tiny grocery has, to taste and
as needed.

Cook pasta as directed on box. The typically recommended margarine can
be omitted. Drain cooking water, add tuna (including water in can) and
vegetables, draining veg. water as needed for consistency. Warm as
needed. Gobble it up.

This works particularly well after a few days on tour when anything
looks good to eat. It has reasonable balance of carbs and protein for
touring.

It also got me through the first year of graduate school. Then I
married someone who could cook.

Mark J.

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 9:45:04 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

And the trailer weighs about 15 pounds all
by itself empty. Far more than the weight of racks on a touring
bike. And the plastic bag on the Bob weighs more than the four
panniers too.

Wow. You must have very light pannier bags. The ones I used when I was
a lad were fairly heavy, made from canvas with hard boards and metal
hooks, etc. Far heavier than the bag I have for my trailer.


Its been 50 years since panniers were made from canvas. And 40 years since hardboard was used as a stiffener. My panniers from 1992, 26 years ago, are made out of polyester/polypropylene material with plastic stiffeners. Still use metal hooks and elastic cords to hold the panniers to the racks. New panniers use plastic cloth for the bag and plastic sheets inside for stiffeners. And new fancy complicated attachment methods.

On 5/28/2018 3:30 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 9:45:04 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

And the trailer weighs about 15 pounds all
by itself empty. Far more than the weight of racks on a touring
bike. And the plastic bag on the Bob weighs more than the four
panniers too.

Wow. You must have very light pannier bags. The ones I used when I was
a lad were fairly heavy, made from canvas with hard boards and metal
hooks, etc. Far heavier than the bag I have for my trailer.


Its been 50 years since panniers were made from canvas. And 40 years since hardboard was used as a stiffener. My panniers from 1992, 26 years ago, are made out of polyester/polypropylene material with plastic stiffeners. Still use metal hooks and elastic cords to hold the panniers to the racks. New panniers use plastic cloth for the bag and plastic sheets inside for stiffeners. And new fancy complicated attachment methods.


One nice feature of newer panniers is positive lock:
https://lonepeakpacks.com/index.php/...ier-hooks.html

so they won't bounce off at a pothole. Many similar designs.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 1:30:25 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 9:45:04 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

And the trailer weighs about 15 pounds all
by itself empty. Far more than the weight of racks on a touring
bike. And the plastic bag on the Bob weighs more than the four
panniers too.

Wow. You must have very light pannier bags. The ones I used when I was
a lad were fairly heavy, made from canvas with hard boards and metal
hooks, etc. Far heavier than the bag I have for my trailer.


Its been 50 years since panniers were made from canvas. And 40 years since hardboard was used as a stiffener. My panniers from 1992, 26 years ago, are made out of polyester/polypropylene material with plastic stiffeners. Still use metal hooks and elastic cords to hold the panniers to the racks. New panniers use plastic cloth for the bag and plastic sheets inside for stiffeners. And new fancy complicated attachment methods.

My 1975 Kirtlands are coated nylon packcloth with aluminum sheet stiffeners, although their contemporary competitor, Eclipse, had plastic stiffeners and a slide-mount system. A fairly complicated attachment system for the time.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/zbills...7606789001880/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/zbills...7606789001880/

Unless you're a Rivendell retro freak, canvas was passe at least 43 years ago, and I have the smelly evidence to prove it up in the attic. I have a newer set from REI that have a better fastener but are not materially better in terms of functionality. The leap in functionality was the Blackburn rack -- invented by Jim Blackburn, who graduated a few years ahead of me at SJSU, or as we call it, the Harvard of San Jose.

I owned a Burley trailer for hauling the kid but never used it for touring.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 5/28/2018 4:52 PM, AMuzi wrote:

One nice feature of newer panniers is positive lock:
https://lonepeakpacks.com/index.php/...ier-hooks.html

so they won't bounce off at a pothole. Many similar designs.

I had occasional trouble with panniers coming unhooked. While I don't
yet own any with positive locks, the concept is appealing.

I modified various panniers in various ways trying to improve the
attachments. By far the most frustrating were the attachments of the
Specialized Tailwind panniers: https://tinyurl.com/y7r8vezq
Each pannier had three U-shaped aluminum clips on the flat back of the
pannier. Those hooked around rack struts and had holes sized for a
clevis pin with a ring, like this but much shorter:
http://www.cads.com/Clevis%20Pin.jpg

In theory, you just hooked the pannier on the rack and popped in three
pins. They couldn't come loose.

In practice, to insert the pins, you were fighting to work between the
spokes, especially after the opposite pannier was in place. The aluminum
clips were plastic coated, but there were often rattles from the clips
or the pins or their rings. I never had one come loose, but I cursed
them fairly often.

The panniers did work well for me, though. The aerodynamic benefit was
actually detectable in coasting tests with a friend of equal weight on
an identical bike. And their small size helped discourage over-packing.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 7:25:15 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

Unless you're a Rivendell retro freak, canvas was passe at least 43 years ago, and I have the smelly evidence to prove it up in the attic. I have a newer set from REI that have a better fastener but are not materially better in terms of functionality. The leap in functionality was the Blackburn rack -- invented by Jim Blackburn, who graduated a few years ahead of me at SJSU, or as we call it, the Harvard of San Jose.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think Carradice still use canvas for their bags. The bag of choice by the late Mr. Jobst Brandt. My panniers use two hooks on the top, bolted through plastic sheets inside acting as a stiffener, inside the nylon/polyester/polypropylene/plastic panniers. And a hook on the bottom at the end of an elastic cord. Rarely one of the two top hooks will come off the rack rail if I hit a big pothole. Of course I use a Blackburn Expedition rack on the back.