Tyler Hamilton medal in jeopardy

Harold Buck wrote in news:no_one_knows-
:
I thought the whole point of blood doping was to save your own blood and
then add it back before competition so it was not easy to prove you'd
done anything wrong. Or am I way off base?

There are different techniques for blood doping. Until this year,
transfusions of someone else's blood were impossible to detect.

Ken wrote:
Harold Buck wrote in news:no_one_knows-
:
I thought the whole point of blood doping was to save your own blood
and then add it back before competition so it was not easy to prove
you'd done anything wrong. Or am I way off base?

There are different techniques for blood doping. Until this year,
transfusions of someone else's blood were impossible to detect.

So. Does LA sell his own blood after the tour?
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Ken" a écrit dans le message de
...
Harold Buck wrote in news:no_one_knows-
:
I thought the whole point of blood doping was to save your own blood and
then add it back before competition so it was not easy to prove you'd
done anything wrong. Or am I way off base?

There are different techniques for blood doping. Until this year,
transfusions of someone else's blood were impossible to detect.

The boosting effects of lood transfusions don't last more than 6 weeks and
saved blood can not be kept for more than 18O days, so if Tyler wanted to
have a transfusions of his own blood for the Vuelta, he would have had to
have taken it after the season was underway. (April at the earliest) Sort of
self defeating to give blood while you're racing.

Harold Buck wrote:

I read in the paper today that Tyler Hamilton's time trial gold medal
from the Olympics is in danger of being stripped due to blood doping. It
would dissapoint me but not entirely surprise me if that were true, but
the weird thing was that they said they found evidence that he had
components form someone else's blood in his blood sample.

I thought the whole point of blood doping was to save your own blood and
then add it back before competition so it was not easy to prove you'd
done anything wrong. Or am I way off base?

Please don't reply to this puppet.
He has been filling the rec.sports.olympics newsgroup with puritan,
anti-european crap for months.

He's a racist, imperialist troll and should be treated as such.

Support modern, scientifically responsible Euro cycling.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:01:29 +0000, Ken wrote:

Harold Buck wrote in news:no_one_knows-
:
I thought the whole point of blood doping was to save your own blood and
then add it back before competition so it was not easy to prove you'd
done anything wrong. Or am I way off base?

There are different techniques for blood doping. Until this year,
transfusions of someone else's blood were impossible to detect.

Uh, that's just not true. Transfusions of someone else's blood is easy to
detect if you run the right tests. Heck I could do it with some antisera
and a centrifuge, unless I'm missing something, here.

Sibling would be harder to detect, but not impossible by any means, even
using simple bench-top testing.

-B

Davide Tosi wrote:

Harold Buck wrote:


I read in the paper today that Tyler Hamilton's time trial gold medal

from the Olympics is in danger of being stripped due to blood doping. It

would dissapoint me but not entirely surprise me if that were true, but
the weird thing was that they said they found evidence that he had
components form someone else's blood in his blood sample.

I thought the whole point of blood doping was to save your own blood and
then add it back before competition so it was not easy to prove you'd
done anything wrong. Or am I way off base?


Please don't reply to this puppet.
He has been filling the rec.sports.olympics newsgroup with puritan,
anti-european crap for months.

He's a racist, imperialist troll and should be treated as such.

Support modern, scientifically responsible Euro cycling.



Responsible is in the eye of the beholder, eh, Davide?
Would you care to define your personal definition of "modern,
scientifically responsible Euro cycling"?
Please also explain the relationship (if any) between the Puritans and
being anti-European.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 09/22/2004 12:52 PM, in article ,
"Davide Tosi" wrote:



He's a racist, imperialist troll and should be treated as such.



That's a laugh, coming from a Sicilian like you.


--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

Badger_South wrote in message . ..

Uh, that's just not true. Transfusions of someone else's blood is easy to
detect if you run the right tests. Heck I could do it with some antisera
and a centrifuge, unless I'm missing something, here.

Sibling would be harder to detect, but not impossible by any means, even
using simple bench-top testing.

You would only be catching antigen mismatch issues, meaning blood type
mismatches for all practical purposes with your simple test. and for
various reasons I would assume they would match types across all the
blood type matrix; easy enough to do. The granularity of anti-sera
testing for antigens is not sufficient to determine this, esp. when we
are talking of a person's career and tens of millions of dollars at
stake. Given the gravity of the problem the only sure way to catch
someone else's blood is testing of DNA or RNA, and no way you can do
that bench top with anti-sera. The type of testing to definitively
determine that another person's blood components are in a sample have
been around for a long time, but not sophisticated or automated
sufficiently to make it viable from a logistic or economic standpoint.
They are now, and all the pros were warned at the start of the season
that they would be used.

- rick

On 22 Sep 2004 17:08:24 -0700, (Rick Warner)
wrote:

Badger_South wrote in message . ..

Uh, that's just not true. Transfusions of someone else's blood is easy to
detect if you run the right tests. Heck I could do it with some antisera
and a centrifuge, unless I'm missing something, here.

Sibling would be harder to detect, but not impossible by any means, even
using simple bench-top testing.

You would only be catching antigen mismatch issues, meaning blood type
mismatches for all practical purposes with your simple test. and for
various reasons I would assume they would match types across all the
blood type matrix; easy enough to do. The granularity of anti-sera
testing for antigens is not sufficient to determine this, esp. when we
are talking of a person's career and tens of millions of dollars at
stake. Given the gravity of the problem the only sure way to catch
someone else's blood is testing of DNA or RNA, and no way you can do
that bench top with anti-sera. The type of testing to definitively
determine that another person's blood components are in a sample have
been around for a long time, but not sophisticated or automated
sufficiently to make it viable from a logistic or economic standpoint.
They are now, and all the pros were warned at the start of the season
that they would be used.

- rick

Well what you say, if I understand it properly, is true, the antigen tests
would show a mixed cell population. From there one would move to more
specific tests. Note I didn't say definitive test. Antigen testing has
limits in that typically only about 15 of the major antigens are run.

However if you gave me some blood and those antisera and a centrifuge,
microscope and incubator, I could probably tell if there had been a
transfusion, or a BMTX based on Rh phenotype mixed field reactions.

-B

"Per Elmsäter" wrote:

Ken wrote:
Harold Buck wrote in news:no_one_knows-
:
I thought the whole point of blood doping was to save your own blood
and then add it back before competition so it was not easy to prove
you'd done anything wrong. Or am I way off base?

There are different techniques for blood doping. Until this year,
transfusions of someone else's blood were impossible to detect.

So. Does LA sell his own blood after the tour?

Sign me up for a quart! ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame