Warranty question

Hi all,

A friend of mine bought a full sus Schwinn MTB 2 years back. The frame
has cracked severely. IMHO a warranty replacement frame, he only rides
it on the road & trails.

The shop says his one year guarantee from them has expired (charming).
They also say:
- the Schwinn importer at the time has gone under.
- the new importer doesnt want to honour his claim.

Anyone know if one of the parties is committed to honour his claim?
Looks like my friend isnt finding any good will.

thanks .. Phil

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:47:15 +0000, Phil Clarke
wrote:

A friend of mine bought a full sus Schwinn MTB 2 years back. The frame
has cracked severely. IMHO a warranty replacement frame, he only rides
it on the road & trails.

The shop says his one year guarantee from them has expired (charming).
They also say:
- the Schwinn importer at the time has gone under.
- the new importer doesnt want to honour his claim.

Anyone know if one of the parties is committed to honour his claim?
Looks like my friend isnt finding any good will.

Local Trading Standards office or his credit card company (if he used
one to facilitate the purchase). A bicycle that snaps after a couple
of years modest use isn't, imo, fit for purpose. Bikes should not fold
in half within that kind of timescale.

On that basis your friend should have a claim against the retailer who
sold him these goods, I don't believe they can wriggle out of that
with the 12 months is up guff. Any credit card provider involved is
also jointly liable with the retailer for the goods supplied, they may
well be able to threaten a chargeback against the retailers merchant
account, which should wake him up to his responsibilities.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

Phil Clarke wrote:

Hi all,

A friend of mine bought a full sus Schwinn MTB 2 years back. The frame
has cracked severely. IMHO a warranty replacement frame, he only rides
it on the road & trails.

The shop says his one year guarantee from them has expired (charming).
They also say:
- the Schwinn importer at the time has gone under.
- the new importer doesnt want to honour his claim.

Anyone know if one of the parties is committed to honour his claim?
Looks like my friend isnt finding any good will.

thanks .. Phil

It is definitely the shop's responsibility irrespective of the
manufacturer going under. Whether a 2 year frame life is judged adequate
or not is I guess a matter of (legal) opinion - I think a frame should
last longer than that, but that's just my opinion.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

In article , James Annan
wrote:
It is definitely the shop's responsibility irrespective of the
manufacturer going under.

Agreed

Whether a 2 year frame life is judged adequate or not is I guess a
matter of (legal) opinion - I think a frame should last longer than
that, but that's just my opinion.

TTBOMK current legal guarantee is 12 months from the date of sale -
manufacturers often offer a longer guarantee.

hth

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

Obligatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, take all this advice at face
value. Also, I work at a bike shop and have had enough people arguing
with me about warranties to be a little jaded about the subject :-)

Phil Clarke wrote:
Hi all,

A friend of mine bought a full sus Schwinn MTB 2 years back. The frame
has cracked severely. IMHO a warranty replacement frame, he only rides
it on the road & trails.

Unfortunately "warranty replacement" doesn't mean what you'd like it to
mean. If something gets sold with a one year, three year, five year,
whatever guarantee, and a breakage occurs after that, your legal
position is that it sucks to be you. Doesn't matter if you really
think the frame shouldn't have broken, doesn't matter if it's never
been ridden, doesn't even matter if it *is* a manufacturing defect,
they don't have to honour the guarantee.

Having said that, the Schwinn website seems to think a FS Schwinn
should have a five year frame warranty. Check your warranty documents,
they *do* have to honour it if it's still within the warranty period.
Some of the Schwinn extreme-use frames do only have a one year
warranty. If your friend has one of those he won't get a replacement
on warranty grounds.

The exception to the above is if the bike is actually unfit for
purpose. Fitness for purpose is usually applied to things which are
wrong at point of sale - road bike being sold as offroad-capable, that
sort of thing. If you bought a bike with a one year warranty I don't
think you could claim it was sold to you as lasting for more than two
years... if it has a five year warranty they have to cough up,
distributor or no.

Finally, the reality of the situation. If the shop is insistent that
they're not paying up and you can't persuade them otherwise, the only
way you'll get a warranty replacement is to start suing. The
Citizen's Advice Bureau may be able to help you through the
small-claims process.

The shop says his one year guarantee from them has expired (charming)
They also say:
- the Schwinn importer at the time has gone under.
- the new importer doesnt want to honour his claim.

Anyone know if one of the parties is committed to honour his claim?
Looks like my friend isnt finding any good will.

Doesn't surprise me, good will does not generally stretch as far as a
new frame.

Call me Bob wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:47:15 +0000, Phil Clarke
wrote:

A friend of mine bought a full sus Schwinn MTB 2 years back. The
frame has cracked severely. IMHO a warranty replacement frame, he
only rides it on the road & trails.

The shop says his one year guarantee from them has expired
(charming). They also say:
- the Schwinn importer at the time has gone under.
- the new importer doesnt want to honour his claim.

Anyone know if one of the parties is committed to honour his claim?
Looks like my friend isnt finding any good will.

Local Trading Standards office or his credit card company (if he used
one to facilitate the purchase). A bicycle that snaps after a couple
of years modest use isn't, imo, fit for purpose. Bikes should not fold
in half within that kind of timescale.

Depending perhaps on the selling price.
A court might find that a £60 discount special mountain bike has only a
short expected life, indicated by its selling price, whereas a £1500 brand
name might be expected to last longer.

I've no idea where the Schwinn in question lives in that scale.

I agree with the comments about a discussion with trading standards and also
any credit card provider, before approaching the retailer again for a
reconsideration of the position.

He might also want to consider contacting Schwinn's parent company. They
might lean on the new importer. Or they might not.



- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Obligatory disclaimer when discussing legal stuff online, I am not a
lawyer, take all this advice at face value. I don't want to be a test
case :-)

Sandy Morton wrote:
In article , James Annan
wrote:
It is definitely the shop's responsibility irrespective of the
manufacturer going under.

Agreed

Whether a 2 year frame life is judged adequate or not is I guess a
matter of (legal) opinion - I think a frame should last longer than
that, but that's just my opinion.

There's two things going on here. There's the statutory right of
"fitness for purpose" and I'm fairly sure a two year frame life is
legally fit for purpose, if a bit disappointing. The other contractual
gubbins is that a lot of things come with a "lifetime" warranty. This
doesn't, unless specifically stated, mean "lifetime of the original
purchaser", it means "expected lifetime of the item in question". This
is the sort of definition that makes lawyers very rich, because
borderline cases have to be decided in court.

IIRC the legal "lifetime" of a bike is around 8 years depending on use.
If the OP had a "lifetime" warranty you could be fairly safe in
assuming 2 years was too short for anything other than dirt jumping.
As it is I think he's either got a 1 or 5 year warranty, which means
he's either in or out.

TTBOMK current legal guarantee is 12 months from the date of sale -
manufacturers often offer a longer guarantee.

The OFT suggests fitness for purpose doesn't generally apply after 6
months. Fatigue cracks on a bicycle might be an exception to that
rule, but I still wouldn't expect more than a year from statutory
rights.

Marvin wrote:

Obligatory disclaimer when discussing legal stuff online, I am not a
lawyer, take all this advice at face value. I don't want to be a test
case :-)

Sandy Morton wrote:

In article , James Annan
wrote:

It is definitely the shop's responsibility irrespective of the
manufacturer going under.

Agreed

Although perhaps I should rephrase that to say that the shop certainly
has _some_ responsibility irrespective of the manufacturer etc going
under. The shop is not liable for the lifetime guarantee of the
manufacturer.



Whether a 2 year frame life is judged adequate or not is I guess a
matter of (legal) opinion - I think a frame should last longer than
that, but that's just my opinion.


There's two things going on here. There's the statutory right of
"fitness for purpose" and I'm fairly sure a two year frame life is
legally fit for purpose, if a bit disappointing. The other contractual
gubbins is that a lot of things come with a "lifetime" warranty. This
doesn't, unless specifically stated, mean "lifetime of the original
purchaser", it means "expected lifetime of the item in question". This
is the sort of definition that makes lawyers very rich, because
borderline cases have to be decided in court.

IIRC the legal "lifetime" of a bike is around 8 years depending on use.
If the OP had a "lifetime" warranty you could be fairly safe in
assuming 2 years was too short for anything other than dirt jumping.
As it is I think he's either got a 1 or 5 year warranty, which means
he's either in or out.

Yes, that seems clear enough if the accepted "fit for purpose" lifetime
is 2y. In which case, failing goodwill from the shop, it might be
worth trying Schwinn directly.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

Marvin wrote:
Obligatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, take all this advice at face
value. Also, I work at a bike shop and have had enough people arguing
with me about warranties to be a little jaded about the subject :-)

Phil Clarke wrote:
Hi all,

A friend of mine bought a full sus Schwinn MTB 2 years back. The
frame has cracked severely. IMHO a warranty replacement frame, he
only rides it on the road & trails.

Unfortunately "warranty replacement" doesn't mean what you'd like it
to mean. If something gets sold with a one year, three year, five
year, whatever guarantee, and a breakage occurs after that, your legal
position is that it sucks to be you. Doesn't matter if you really
think the frame shouldn't have broken, doesn't matter if it's never
been ridden, doesn't even matter if it *is* a manufacturing defect,
they don't have to honour the guarantee.

Having said that, the Schwinn website seems to think a FS Schwinn
should have a five year frame warranty. Check your warranty
documents, they *do* have to honour it if it's still within the
warranty period. Some of the Schwinn extreme-use frames do only have
a one year warranty. If your friend has one of those he won't get a
replacement on warranty grounds.

The exception to the above is if the bike is actually unfit for
purpose. Fitness for purpose is usually applied to things which are
wrong at point of sale - road bike being sold as offroad-capable, that
sort of thing. If you bought a bike with a one year warranty I don't
think you could claim it was sold to you as lasting for more than two
years... if it has a five year warranty they have to cough up,
distributor or no.

Finally, the reality of the situation. If the shop is insistent that
they're not paying up and you can't persuade them otherwise, the only
way you'll get a warranty replacement is to start suing. The
Citizen's Advice Bureau may be able to help you through the
small-claims process.

The shop says his one year guarantee from them has expired (charming)
They also say:
- the Schwinn importer at the time has gone under.
- the new importer doesnt want to honour his claim.

Anyone know if one of the parties is committed to honour his claim?
Looks like my friend isnt finding any good will.

Doesn't surprise me, good will does not generally stretch as far as a
new frame.


This sort of discussion has come up often on other NGs, usually in reference
to TV's etc.
The 1 year warranty isn't legally binding. eg. If you spent say £2000 on a
TV you would expect it to last considerably longer than 1 year.
A Fridge is expected to last several years as are other "white goods"
irrespective of the warranty.
I don't see why this shouldn't apply to cycle frames as well-Trading
Standards should take your case. .....unless of course its a supermarket
special :-)
Try asking on one of the legal NGs

Jan

Try asking on one of the legal NGs

If only to laugh at the insanely inaccurate responses from non-legally
qualified contributors :-)

Been there done that, had a belly laugh.

Free advice is worth what you paid for it ;-)