"quick release" chain link that really IS?

On May 12, 11:06*pm, Tom Ace wrote:
On May 12, 2:46*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Chains permitted but not recommended:
"All 1/2"x1/8" bicycle chains are compatible with the Rohloff SPEEDHUB
500/14 sprockets. However, these thicker chains are by no means
stronger and not recommended for use with the Rohloff SPEEDHUB
500/14."

http://www.rohloff.de/en/info/faq/fa...?tx_ttnews%5Bt...

They are recommended against only because Rohloff thinks
they aren't as durable, not because they'd be too wide.
(The reasons why are in the German version of that page).

Once again: does your bike have either 15t or a tensioner?

Tom Ace

No.

On May 12, 4:02*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Once again: does your bike have either 15t or a tensioner?

Tom Ace

No.

Then the chaincase is the only thing limiting your
choice of chain.

I didn't want the Rohloff hub to get a bad rap here.
I have a wide chain on mine and it works fine.

Tom Ace

try shaping wire insulation cutters for roller squeezing.
There's a reclaimed one laying abt here. I'll let yawl know after I
step on it.

On Tue, 12 May 2009 11:54:56 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:

On May 12, 7:11*pm, RonSonic wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2009 07:52:03 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:
On May 11, 11:58*pm, wrote:
This design became necessary for derailleur clusters with close
clearance between sprockets so small that the old style master links,
whose pins extended out of the side plate, caused interference. *The
old style was easier to open even when dirty, they only required that
one bend the chain to flex the link so that the face plate fell off.

Jobst Brandt

By "old style" I assume Jobst means 8-speed chains. I have only 8-
speed chains on my bikes and all my bikes have enclosed chain cases.
Some of my chains are lubed with White Lightning Dry Wax, some Oil of
Rohloff, and in the past I've lubed with light machine oil (sewing
machine oil). I have several brands of chains. By Jobst's logic, they
should all break easily at the quick chain link.

Of all my chains I've had the best luck getting the quick release
chain link to come off the SRAM chain (apparently contrary to the
experience so far reported in this thread), but even that isn't
consistent enough to call it a successful design.

With the others I've found the QRCL on Connex chains to be the most
obstreperous, and late last year I wrecked two *new* Connex chains
flexing them, trying to get the QRCLs off. Eventually, hours later and
very ****ed-off indeed, I used a standard chainsplitter to make one
chain out of two wrecked chains. Considering the price of the better
Connex chains, that's an expensive way to proceed.

Interestingly, my LBS says, "Inside an enclosed chaincase? You don't
need anything better than a cheap KMC. You'll never get value out of
those rust-proof chains inside a chaincase." Even more interestingly,
my German bike comes with a KMC, though with rustproofing rather than
the plain cheap unproofed type the LBS is talking about.

AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE FLAT QR CHAIN LINK

The alternative is to buy one of those Connex -- and maybe other makes
too -- chains with a sliding spring clip as used on some of the
cheaper chains in the range. The spring clip will probably come off if
a thumbnail is enthusiastically applied to it. A screwdriver will
certainly split it infallibly. I haven't tried it, because I suspect
that as infallibly the spring clip will go flying off into the grass
and be triumphantly carried away by crickets singling as they work.
(In any event, the rubbing of the spring clip will probably wreck my
lightweight, flexible and aerodynamically close-fitting chaincase.)

Which leads us to:

ANDRE JUTE'S ADVICE TO YOUNG BICYCLISTS:
1. Buy an extra mobile phone to carry permanently in your tool kit on
your bike. Feed it the home numbers of the taxi drivers where you
ride.
....
3. Buy a good chainsplitter. Quick release chain links will develop
your fluency in foul vernacular but will not split chains.

By "old-style master link" Jobst meant the type used for single speed chains
that you discuss near the end of your post. Those links are not suitable for
derailleur bikes of any number of speeds. Put it in backward and the derailleur
will remove it and it drags and hangs up on everything else.

Since all your bikes have a single cog and chainring, there is no reason for you
to uses anything other than the old-style spring clip connector link. Those are
simple, easy to use and inexpensive. The clip is even easier to lose than a
modern connector, but replacement links are dirt cheap and spares can be carried
indefinitely taped inside the saddlebag.

Wish that I could use those simple chains and that simple link. But
Rohloff actually prescribes an 8-speed chain because anything wider
will rub a groove into the ali casing and presumably eventually
through the casing. And, even if it fits 8-speed chains, I can't use
the clip on my current favourite bike either, because it will soon rub
through the lightweight and close-fitting custom chaincase (which at
probably around 200 euro delivered and fitted, I'm not too keen to
damage).

Certainly not.

Would've thought that with the Rohloff's off-road ancestry and rugged design
they'd go for the 1/8" chain.

On May 13, 4:21*am, RonSonic wrote:

Would've thought that with the Rohloff's off-road ancestry and rugged design
they'd go for the 1/8" chain.

I thought so too, until I read the handbook. Before they got into hub
gearboxes, Rohloff was famous for their chains and chain tool, so they
reckon, rightly, that they know something about chains. If they say
3/32in is good, that's good enough for me. -- Andre Jute

On May 12, 8:45*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Would've thought that with the Rohloff's off-road ancestry and rugged design
they'd go for the 1/8" chain.

I thought so too, until I read the handbook. Before they got into hub
gearboxes, Rohloff was famous for their chains and chain tool, so they
reckon, rightly, that they know something about chains. If they say
3/32in is good, that's good enough for me. -- Andre Jute

The usual advice applies about keeping an eye on chain pitch
and replacing chains before you wear out the sprocket.
You could try one of each and see for yourself which kind of
chain lasted longer rather than taking Rohloff's word. (That
is, if it clears your chaincase.)

As to how credible Rohloff's advice about chains is--
keep in mind that they say that chains elongate by stretching.

Tom Ace

On May 13, 5:25*am, Tom Ace wrote:
On May 12, 8:45*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Would've thought that with the Rohloff's off-road ancestry and rugged design
they'd go for the 1/8" chain.

I thought so too, until I read the handbook. Before they got into hub
gearboxes, Rohloff was famous for their chains and chain tool, so they
reckon, rightly, that they know something about chains. If they say
3/32in is good, that's good enough for me. -- Andre Jute

The usual advice applies about keeping an eye on chain pitch
and replacing chains before you wear out the sprocket.

I don't know if you know, but on one of my enclosed-chaincase bikes I
conducted an experiment with White Lightning Dry Wax, and the chain
lasted about 2000m.
My Utopia came with KMC chain, presumably with Oil of Rohloff on it,
and I bought several bottles with the bike as spares. We'll see how
well that goes, but already, with only 500km on the chain, I don't
expect it to go as far as the White Lightning protected chain, among
other reasons because my fingers feel gritty after touching the chain.


You could try one of each and see for yourself which kind of
chain lasted longer rather than taking Rohloff's word.

Whyever should I not take their word? This is nuts! They're
chainmakers themselves and they made my gearbox and the sprocket on
it. Of course they know best which parts are complementary.

*(That
is, if it clears your chaincase.)

An 1/8 inch chain will clear the chaincase, but an outside spring clip
type quick release will rip the chaincase belows or rub through the
plastic parts, which are quite thin in the interests of weight
saving.

As to how credible Rohloff's advice about chains is--
keep in mind that they say that chains elongate by stretching.

I haven't seen that. What I saw was a remark about "chain elasticity"
which, after inspection of the German original, I rejected as a
translation anomaly. In any event, even if a manufacturer is in error
about a single small RBT shibboleth, that doesn't mean he cannot be
right on everything else.

Andre Jute
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/Andre%20Jute's%20Utopia%20Kranich.pdf

On May 12, 10:12*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

You could try one of each and see for yourself which kind of
chain lasted longer rather than taking Rohloff's word.

Whyever should I not take their word? This is nuts! They're
chainmakers themselves and they made my gearbox and the sprocket on
it. Of course they know best which parts are complementary.

It's a sprocket. Nothing special about it.

Why should you not take their word?
If you care to know first-hand which chain lasts
better on your bike, in the conditions you ride in.
Nothing nuts about that. It's not like you're going
to ruin the hub by trying another chain.

As to how credible Rohloff's advice about chains is--
keep in mind that they say that chains elongate by stretching.

I haven't seen that. What I saw was a remark about "chain elasticity"
which, after inspection of the German original, I rejected as a
translation anomaly.

If you read the German version, you would've seen
where they talk about stretching: "elastische Dehnung".

Tom Ace

On Tue, 12 May 2009 21:25:26 -0700 (PDT), Tom Ace wrote:

On May 12, 8:45*pm, Andre Jute wrote:

Would've thought that with the Rohloff's off-road ancestry and rugged design
they'd go for the 1/8" chain.

I thought so too, until I read the handbook. Before they got into hub
gearboxes, Rohloff was famous for their chains and chain tool, so they
reckon, rightly, that they know something about chains. If they say
3/32in is good, that's good enough for me. -- Andre Jute

The usual advice applies about keeping an eye on chain pitch
and replacing chains before you wear out the sprocket.
You could try one of each and see for yourself which kind of
chain lasted longer rather than taking Rohloff's word. (That
is, if it clears your chaincase.)

As to how credible Rohloff's advice about chains is--
keep in mind that they say that chains elongate by stretching.

Myself, I'll blame the poor schmuck who has to write the manuals. He's only got
so many words and gets blamed if people fail to understand. It is so much easier
to get someone to understand "stretch" than "elongation" never mind trying to
get the average moron to understand what's actually going on in chain wear.

On May 11, 4:01*pm, (It's Chris) wrote:
I loved the concept of tool free chain breaking initiated (AFAIK) by the
Craig "Super-Link". However, Craig is no more, and all the QRL's I have
seen are either designed to be single use (tool-free installation,
cannot be removed) or are so difficult to remove they require a pair of
pliers to squeeze the plates together, or slide them so they can be
separated, or whatever other method it takes to remove them, which
completely negates the "tool-free" concept.

My question is: Is there a "tool-free removal" bicycle chain link that
really IS tool-free in actual use?

*- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:http://geocities.com/czcorner

I've used kmc or sachs. I don't have much problem. Like someone else
suggestes I remove the chain from the chainwheels to have it slack. I
push both plates inward and both links towards each other and it
usually comes loose. On accassions I use neddle nose plyers to push
links against each other. the chain comes loose w/o problems either
way. Its a matter of getting a feel for it. Once you do, you'll be
able to do it indefinite amount of times w/o problems.

Andres