#11
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West Virginia?????
"info." wrote in message ... What is "regional garb?" You do realize that they have two seperate teams, a PRO team and an ELITE AMATEUR team for developing younger riders. They have seperate team kits for both -- the green/yellow (similar to last year) for the elite and a new navy blue/yellow for the pro. Quite a nice kit, I might add. I mean their former teams, Wheelworks and Trek/VW. Funny how you say they have an Elite Amateur Team and a Pro team. Seems to me like they are both Elite Amateur teams... Wade |
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#12
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West Virginia?????
begs the question...that was debated here (yet not resolved) this
winter...what's the difference anyway? the UCI are a 'euro organization and the (spirit of) their rules really only apply to the infrastructure of professional cycling that is in place...IN EUROPE. the west virginia program simply was an attempt to conform to the rules set forth by the international governing body. and for the record, the move to have a professional team was, ironically, sponsor driven. the move was ambitious, to say the least. Funny how you say they have an Elite Amateur Team and a Pro team. Seems to me like they are both Elite Amateur teams... Wade |
#13
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West Virginia?????
"Bensharp13" wrote in message ... begs the question...that was debated here (yet not resolved) this winter...what's the difference anyway? the UCI are a 'euro organization and the (spirit of) their rules really only apply to the infrastructure of professional cycling that is in place...IN EUROPE. the west virginia program simply was an attempt to conform to the rules set forth by the international governing body. and for the record, the move to have a professional team was, ironically, sponsor driven. the move was ambitious, to say the least. I think the difference is a step up in responsibility and formality. The employees of a D3 should have a little more recourse should things go south. In terms of races entered etc, I think the difference is minimal, but there are a handfull, of what people might consider key races, that a D3 can enter and an elite team can not. I have done no research, so this is all assumption. The Team is West Virginia. I assume that the sponsor money comes from the State of West Virginia , perhaps through the tourism bureau. Can I also assume that like my State of Connecticut, the State of WV has budget problems and lots of programs, departments and employees are circling the bowl right now. Could this be the root of the money problems with the team. I imagine that very few of the riders and staff can actually vote in WV so no one is going to stick their neck out when the discussions comes up about programs to cut. I would bet a cycling team would go right to the top of the list. Wade |
#14
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West Virginia?????
"Bensharp13" wrote in message
... begs the question...that was debated here (yet not resolved) this winter...what's the difference anyway? the UCI are a 'euro organization and the (spirit of) their rules really only apply to the infrastructure of professional cycling that is in place...IN EUROPE. the west virginia program simply was an attempt to conform to the rules set forth by the international governing body. and for the record, the move to have a professional team was, ironically, sponsor driven. the move was ambitious, to say the least. I think the difference is a step up in responsibility and formality. The employees of a D3 should have a little more recourse should things go south. the operative word here is "should". D3, in the eyes of the UCI was never meant to be a truly professional level but rather a developmental program to bridge the progression for young, talented riders. Belgium does not acknowledge D3 as professional and many other teams, Rabo, Quick Step, for example have D3 developmental teams to "feed" their D1 teams, like Triple A in baseball here. In the US however, it is a "loophole" through which a program with a meager budget, can race professionally. In the end, IMHO, it's bad for the sport domestically. It permits a lack of professionalism to pervade the pro peloton (sorry for the alliteration). sorry...i'm rambling...now, when it comes to the "recourse" of which you speak. the truth of the matter is that, in the case of our team, the money that is required for the escrow (presumably to protect the riders should the program turn to dung), MIGHT cover about 1/2 of the team's contract obligations...for a month. That is of course, after dragging the sponsor's and management's names through the mud (thus assuring that neither will be associated again with the UCI, unless you're jw, of course) and a long, drawn out arbitration hearing, to go through which, most guys can't afford proper representation. Also, please don't use the term "employee" too loosely. at least with our program, and i should assume with most D3 teams, we are independently contracted riders, not employees of the team. no insurance, no benefits, no pension, etc. In terms of races entered etc, I think the difference is minimal, but there are a handfull, of what people might consider key races, that a D3 can enter and an elite team can not. I have done no research, so this is all assumption. The Team is West Virginia. I assume that the sponsor money comes from the State of West Virginia , perhaps through the tourism bureau. Can I also assume that like my State of Connecticut, the State of WV has budget problems and lots of programs, departments and employees are circling the bowl right now. Could this be the root of the money problems with the team. I imagine that very few of the riders and staff can actually vote in WV so no one is going to stick their neck out when the discussions comes up about programs to cut. I would bet a cycling team would go right to the top of the list. Wade some of your assumptions are correct...yes, the team is sponsored by the bureau of tourism in West Virginia. However, as far as I can tell, all the money that was promised by THAT sponsor is accounted for but, decidedly later than anticipated...they are paying in installments, as it were. The problem that has afflicted this team is two-fold. first, long-time-sponsor, Gomart (with whom the team has been associated for 11 years) have had their own financial woes and pulled out in the 11th hour, thus leaving the already poor money handling (problem two) management with their hands tied, as they had invariably counted their chickens... Personally, i have done 8 races this year that I otherwise would not have been allowed to do (i'm off to NYC for my 9th this weekend) had I not been professional. IMHO, the headache, for me, a 31 y/o not really improving anymore, and, more importantly, who has a pretty good handle on where he stands in the pecking order of the sport, has not been worth it. yeah, racing philly was great, and the tour of georgia was pretty awesome but...debating on whether i can afford those trips, getting my teeth kicked in when i can (afford the trips) and returning home to earn money, however possible, while trying to maintain some level of fitness (when management can't promise when checks will arrive) has NOT been worth it. benjamin |
#15
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West Virginia?????
Aren't they getting the prevailing TT3 wage? You mean the monthly kick in the balls?? Ben, you're not supposed to comment on your own team. Love, RB |
#16
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West Virginia?????
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#17
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West Virginia?????
"Bensharp13" wrote in message
news:20030801104002.13124.00000551@mb-[honest inside stuff] Thanks for your post -- very informative. JT PS -- consider "paucity" instead of "lack" in your alliteration and you'll be way over the top... -- ******************************************* NB: reply-to address is munged Visit http://www.jt10000.com ******************************************* |
#18
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West Virginia?????
Actually Bob, sounds like that's what they are getting...that being
nothing. I don't think D3 riders need to be paid a minimum wage. I think the DI teams are set at something like 40,000 euro. CH Bob Schwartz wrote in message ... Andy Coggan wrote: "Marilyn" wrote in message om... The riders who want to ride for WVA are riding. But the real question is, are they getting paid? Aren't they getting the prevailing TT3 wage? Bob Schwartz |
#19
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West Virginia?????
"Ryan Barrett" wrote in message om... Aren't they getting the prevailing TT3 wage? You mean the monthly kick in the balls?? Ben, you're not supposed to comment on your own team. Dear Receiver of the Monthly-kcik-in-the-balls - Didn't you just do that? (comment on your own team) |
#20
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West Virginia?????
"Bensharp13" wrote in message ... good post snipped Mr. Sharp - Earlier this year, we had an argument here with the infinitely esteemed Greg Avon of Lemond Fitness. He claimed that going pro was going to take his team "to the next level". My position was that the $10k spent on D3 status would be better used to support riders' living expenses so that they could train more. After all it's training that makes the rider, not the license, IMO. Anyways, your post seems to support the position that when trying to maximize one's talent, it would be better to have living expenses than pro license (if there is so little $$ that one has to choose one or the other). Is my impression correct? |
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