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Dan Gregory wrote:
wrote: Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way to find out what max HR is is to induce it. Thinking of formulae "off the top of my head" my MHR is the age of my father when he died + the age of my mother when she died + 5 :-)) Does that mean my max will keep climbing ones 84 and the other 85 hmmmmm... |
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#122
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wizardB wrote:
Dan Gregory wrote: wrote: Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way to find out what max HR is is to induce it. Thinking of formulae "off the top of my head" my MHR is the age of my father when he died + the age of my mother when she died + 5 :-)) Does that mean my max will keep climbing ones 84 and the other 85 hmmmmm... 93+79 in my case :-)) |
#123
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wizardB wrote:
Dan Gregory wrote: wrote: Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way to find out what max HR is is to induce it. I did that once and it happened to turn out *exactly* as what the formula predicted. It was uncanny. But still, I have since been unable to raise my HR max through training. |
#124
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:32:21 -0400, Coal Porter
wrote: On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:10:59 +0100, Peter Grange wrote: On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:28:05 -0400, Coal Porter wrote: On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:17:06 +0100, Peter Grange wrote: On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:54:39 -0400, Coal Porter wrote: On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:40:14 +0100, Peter Grange wrote: On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:22:14 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way to find out what max HR is is to induce it. How do you induce max heart rate, without finding out it won't go _that_ fast and having the rate abruptly return to zero? Like the poster says, you induce it. When you reach your maximum, the heart doesn't explode, it just stops beating faster. It's not unlike the converse: as you go into deep relaxation and then sleep, your heart doesn't shut down for a spell. OK, for a young person who has an established level of fitness, maybe that's a half reasonable thing to do. I can't see that it's anything approaching a good idea for just anyone to set out to find out how fast his/her heart will go. Sorry, I made a mistake in my initial response: at a certain age, I think it's 40, it's recommended that the aspiring trainee consult with a physician before beginning a fitness program. I should have added that qualifier but some may say it's implied. In another sense, there's semantics going on here. There's clearly a common sense approach to this whole exercise(/GROAN). But there's also a self limiting factor: a beginning fitness buff can't do today what they'll be able to do tomorrow, next week, next month, and in a decade. So get your butt out there, and do all you can, it ain't gonna be much, but you'll get better. This is my tenth cycling season. There are times when I'm exhausted but I'll still go out for a ride. It might just be maintenace, but it'll have more climbing than anthing that I might have done to curry a high heart rate in the first 3, or 4 years that I've cycled. Cycling is not like running, you don't need a six month ramp up to prepare your body bor the rigors of the sport. And you can never get the half workout back. Better to give your best effort and have no regrets. I wouldn't mind betting there are a number of teenagers out there where suddenly stressing the heart would not be a very good idea, but I'm not a doctor. In order to join a HS sports team, you need a release from an MD. You need a physical. I suspect the rationale is potential liability and nothing more. Frankly though, I think it's prudent and noone here has suggested anything else. Sorry, don't know what HS means, but I agree it certainly seems prudent to seek medical advice before embarking on any major physical exercise regime. This thread is posted to rec.bicycles.racing and rec.bicycles.tech, where I read it. If it was only on rbr I would have not taken such an exception to the "see how fast your heart can go" theme of some of the posts. Plus I wouldn't have seen them anyway :-). On the other hand, to respond directly to your supposition that some teenagers are put at risk and therefore ought not to engage in physical activity, I would take the opposing view. Any teenager who could suffer life threatening repurcushions based on normal athletic activity, should best find out at that time, when the body is most capable of being repaired and a life's course is determined. I would go so far as to say, we should produce far less fans and many more participants. Participation is the goal not winning. i was not suggesting a youngster should not take up recreational cycling, I was suggesting he/she should not stress his/her heart by trying to establish a max heart rate. I would not for one minute try to discourage anyone from cycling, It's given me much pleasure over the years, and is an excellent exercise for those wishing to lose some weight and see some of the countryside we still have left in this country, which is why a lot of people take it up in the first place. What I would discourage a new cyclist from doing is to try to establish a max heart rate by seeing how fast his/her heart will go. The admittedly crude measures (220-age or whatever) are IMHO quite adequate for setting up the calorie counter on an HRM for a recreational cyclist, especiallly a rookie recreational cyclist. My hrm will even take age as an input. Surely exercising to near your max HR is the same on a bike as running? Sorry, you clearly have never looked at any data. I didn't understand the difference either until I got an HRM. While running you support your weight, when bikeing you're most often sitting on your butt and it makes all the difference. Running is a far more strenous workout than cycling. No one has to talk about weight loss in a running forum, it's a byproduct of the activity. Cyclist's are always wondering about it. People in this thread are talking about it. Put an HRM on, go for a hour run. The next day go for a ride. The questions answer themselves: one workout is more strenous, the other can be done when your body can't handle the harder exertion, a huge plus! Perhaps I misunderstood your previous post. I was merely commenting that to get your heart to its max it doesn't make a great deal of difference how you get it there. My butt is firmly out there. I'm now 62 & have been cycling to a greater or lesser degree since I was 14, including Jon O' Groats to Lands end, and tours over the Pyrenees. You have great experiences, now if you can only pass on your personal willingness to those that don't know that a little effort early on can result in a lifetime of benefit. I started riding at 42 and I don't want anyone that talks to me, to wait that long. I advocate cycling whenever I can. I'm pleased to see that it has enjoyed a resurgence in the last few years in the UK. I would like to think it was due to people wanting exercise, but alas in London anyway I believe it's more due to the tax on vehicles entering the city, bombs on the underground (subway) and the equivalent of $8 a gallon we pay for petrol now. People still get the exercise though I guess. I repeat, my only gripe was with the "exercise to see how fast your heart will go" theme. I don't exercise until I puke, as someone advocated in this thread. I may puke, but that's probably more due to the beers I had at the lunchtime stop. Hey this thread is getting long. pete jay. Pete |
#125
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someone wrote (sorry, hard to keep the attributions straight):
and you'llsee your max drop as you spend more time on the road- such as during the spring. I've never heard such a thing. Where did you hear that max HR drops with training? I read that eddy had a very low max, something like 150bpm...the point is that the max hr is a very personal thing, and there is no formula or point in comparison to any other individual than yourself; absolutely hr monitoring and bpm numbers are useful intelectual exercises to help quantify the pain and serve as a distraction during the activity, as an excuse to ease off or provide a mandate to continue; but the activity concludes with results that essentually speak for themselves and that being the object of the activity, the hr values are irrelevant actually, I think HR based training has been shown to be an effective training technique, not a "distraction", "excuse", "irrelevant" , etc. someone else: but I was thinking a bit more last night after I posted and I wonder if the max hr is more of a pain threshold; the point where one says "enough !" where someone else chooses to continue, I always feel I can do more but don't because the agony becomes greater- I think you're absolutely right. I've been told by good coaches that the agony point is a good estimate of 90-95% max HR. |
#126
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On Apr 10, 10:22 pm, "
Using a formula to figure your max HR is like fitting your shoes based on measuring the circumfrence of your head. Some correlation for a population probably, but near usless for an individual. The only way to find out what max HR is is to induce it. Joseph has spoken the truth. |
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