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Dahon Impulse D6 vs. Giant Halfway



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 26th 05, 04:10 PM
C.J.Patten
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"Simon Brooke" wrote in message
...
in message , C.J.Patten
') wrote:

snip

The Giant Halfway is a Mike Burrows design and has much nicer kit, but
I'm not sure whether that justifies the increase in price. It also has
a slightly wider gear range with lower bottom gears, if that's a
consideration.


Yes, in fairness, I test rode the Giant Halfway in slightly more hilly
conditions than the Dahon.
I was *just* at the edge of my capability to climb hills with the Giant -
likely I'd grow into it - but perhaps the D6 would be a poorer choice given
it may not have the gear range I need right now.


snip

In a major impact aluminium is likely to crack, in which case it's a
write-off - and, indeed, even if it bends it's almost certainly a
write-off. Furthermore, although aluminium does not rust, it will
corrode electrolytically wherever there are steel components connected
to the frame if it is not stored dry, and, over long periods of time,
these will destroy the frame too.


I'm confused. There are aluminum mountain bikes that don't seem to crack
apart - some without any kind of suspension.
By "impact" is this to say "hitting the frame with a hammer" (or throwing
rocks at it)?

This IS going to be a pathway bike but I'd like to know if I go aluminum I
don't have to worry about the frame spontaneously disintegrating through
regular use. (even if it's years and thousands of miles of regular use)
There seem to be a lot of Giant Halfway users out there with no reports of
(recent) self-destructions so I have to assume this is a reasonably designed
bike.

If it were able to take the beating, I'd probably put semi-knobbies on it
and take it on some dirt tracks - perhaps that's asking too much of this
bike though.

I'm strongly leaning toward the 'Halfway. I'm sure the Dahon would be a fine
bike but I'm looking for something I won't outgrow - or at least not feel
like I compromised. (realizing folders in general are a compromise)

The Giant seems to be the Cadillac of it's class though I don't know if the
idea that it's "halfway between a folder and a full size" is quite accurate.

Thanks VERY much for your input Simon!

Chris



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  #12  
Old May 26th 05, 05:46 PM
Tony Raven
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Joe Canuck wrote:

My comment was based on personal experience and was not "coloured" by
reading magazines... which I don't.


But wrongly ascribed your experience to the frame material and not the
many other factors which would have influenced the harshness of the
ride. At best you could say your advice was misleading.


--
Tony

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought" Lord
Peter Wimsey (Dorothy L. Sayers)
  #13  
Old May 26th 05, 05:55 PM
Simon Brooke
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in message , C.J.Patten
') wrote:

"Simon Brooke" wrote in message
...
in message , C.J.Patten
') wrote:

snip

The Giant Halfway is a Mike Burrows design and has much nicer kit,
but I'm not sure whether that justifies the increase in price. It
also has a slightly wider gear range with lower bottom gears, if
that's a consideration.


Yes, in fairness, I test rode the Giant Halfway in slightly more hilly
conditions than the Dahon.
I was *just* at the edge of my capability to climb hills with the
Giant - likely I'd grow into it - but perhaps the D6 would be a poorer
choice given it may not have the gear range I need right now.


snip

In a major impact aluminium is likely to crack, in which case it's a
write-off - and, indeed, even if it bends it's almost certainly a
write-off. Furthermore, although aluminium does not rust, it will
corrode electrolytically wherever there are steel components
connected to the frame if it is not stored dry, and, over long
periods of time, these will destroy the frame too.


I'm confused. There are aluminum mountain bikes that don't seem to
crack apart - some without any kind of suspension.
By "impact" is this to say "hitting the frame with a hammer" (or
throwing rocks at it)?


As in colliding with a moving motor vehicle, for example. Nothing less.

This IS going to be a pathway bike but I'd like to know if I go
aluminum I don't have to worry about the frame spontaneously
disintegrating through regular use. (even if it's years and thousands
of miles of regular use) There seem to be a lot of Giant Halfway users
out there with no reports of (recent) self-destructions so I have to
assume this is a reasonably designed bike.


Cracking of aluminium framed bikes is greatly exaggerated. It has
happened, largely with racing bikes (both road racing and cross
country) but it isn't at all common. The point is, though, a steel
frame that's been in a bad crash is almost always repairable (although
it may be uneconomic to repair); an aluminium or carbon fibre frame
frame which has been in a bad crash is usually not repairable.

I'm strongly leaning toward the 'Halfway. I'm sure the Dahon would be
a fine bike but I'm looking for something I won't outgrow - or at
least not feel like I compromised. (realizing folders in general are a
compromise)


I'd go for the Hafway - as I say, it _is_ a Mike Burrows design.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

  #14  
Old May 26th 05, 06:12 PM
Just zis Guy, you know?
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 17:55:06 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote:

Cracking of aluminium framed bikes is greatly exaggerated.


Ahem!

http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/..._Stinger_Stung

Twice!

OK, misleading vividness ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
  #15  
Old May 26th 05, 06:17 PM
Tony Raven
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Simon Brooke wrote:


Cracking of aluminium framed bikes is greatly exaggerated. It has
happened, largely with racing bikes (both road racing and cross
country) but it isn't at all common. The point is, though, a steel
frame that's been in a bad crash is almost always repairable (although
it may be uneconomic to repair); an aluminium or carbon fibre frame
frame which has been in a bad crash is usually not repairable.


Indeed in the one comparative frame fatigue test that has been reported,
aluminium frames were the only ones to survive the test intact. The
same was not true of steel bikes all of which failed prematurely. Of
all the frame materials - steel, aluminium, carbon fibre and titanium -
steel showed the shortest fatigue life.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/E...tigue_test.htm


--
Tony

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought" Lord
Peter Wimsey (Dorothy L. Sayers)
  #16  
Old May 26th 05, 06:20 PM
Tony Raven
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Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 17:55:06 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote:


Cracking of aluminium framed bikes is greatly exaggerated.



Ahem!

http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/..._Stinger_Stung

Twice!

OK, misleading vividness ;-)


Frame material or frame design? A case of anecdote over evidence to
which I reply http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/E...tigue_test.htm

--
Tony

"A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought" Lord
Peter Wimsey (Dorothy L. Sayers)
  #17  
Old May 26th 05, 06:43 PM
C.J.Patten
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"Simon Brooke" wrote:
snip snip

As in colliding with a moving motor vehicle, for example. Nothing less.

snip

Cracking of aluminium framed bikes is greatly exaggerated. It has
happened, largely with racing bikes (both road racing and cross
country) but it isn't at all common. The point is, though, a steel
frame that's been in a bad crash is almost always repairable (although
it may be uneconomic to repair); an aluminium or carbon fibre frame
frame which has been in a bad crash is usually not repairable.


Thanks Simon... I see what you mean about the impact damage.


snip

I'd go for the Hafway - as I say, it _is_ a Mike Burrows design.


(frantically Googling "Mike Burrows"...

___________________________

Thanks Tony and Guy for the links.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/E...tigue_test.htm
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/..._Stinger_Stung

I'm feeling more comfortable with aluminum now. I wasn't *un*comfortable
with it until I started reading about stress cracks etc. As with just about
anything, I think it's safe to say poor design is more of a concern than
material used.

Best regards,
Chris


  #18  
Old May 26th 05, 07:37 PM
Steven M. Scharf
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"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...

I've copied prices and some tech specs below. If there's anything you see
that says "oh boy, watch out for that kid" I'd appreciate the heads up.
(I've left out items that are the same on both bikes; eg: they both come
with fenders, folding pedals etc.)


One thing about most folding bikes is that the folding pedals really suck.
On my Dahon Speed TR 2004, I changed the pedals to the MKS removeable pedals
from Harris Cyclery (and installed toe clips and straps). I also sent an
e-mail to the VP of Dahon with an evaluation of the Speed TR, and mentioned
the pedal issue. Low and behold, the 2005 Speed TR has the MKS pedals as
standard equipment (whether that was due to my comments, I don't know).

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/pedals.html#folding

I would definitely not pay a premium for aluminum frame over chro-moly, if
anything it's the other way around. I suppose that if the bicycle is kept on
a boat then maybe aluminum is better, but there are still steel components
that would rust.

Personally, I was not looking at any folder with the limited gearing range
of the models you are considering, but I live in an area with a lot of
hills.



  #19  
Old May 26th 05, 07:46 PM
Steven M. Scharf
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"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...

Indeed in the one comparative frame fatigue test that has been reported,
aluminium frames were the only ones to survive the test intact. The
same was not true of steel bikes all of which failed prematurely. Of
all the frame materials - steel, aluminium, carbon fibre and titanium -
steel showed the shortest fatigue life.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/E...tigue_test.htm


The EFBe frame tests have been thoroughly discredited many times.


  #20  
Old May 26th 05, 07:57 PM
Just zis Guy, you know?
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:46:30 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
wrote:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/E...tigue_test.htm

The EFBe frame tests have been thoroughly discredited many times.


Well, Tony, Scharf states with absolute conviction that you are wrong.
There are few more reliable indicators that you are right on the
money! The Scharf Test rarely lets you down.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 




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