Can you make it to the market on a bike?

On Aug 5, 7:12 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote in s.com...





Andrew Muzi wrote:
However, I stand by my statement that the free-market has failed,
since there is no real free-market health care system in the US.

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" wrote
Seeing as it's never really been tried, except perhaps many moons ago
when health care was nowhere near as complex and expensive as it is
now,

Joe the Aroma WHO? wrote:
I think it's hasty to make that conclusion.

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote
My point exactly. The FREE MARKET is failing to provide free market
health care in the U.S.

Edward Dolan wrote:
Mr. Sherman is quite corred on this matter of health care in the US. The
present system is broken and cannot be fixed except by a single payer
system (the government). Such a health care system will be like the
public school system. It is not socialism, but simply good common sense.
It ought to be financed via higher progressive income taxes on the rich
and/or a value added tax on those who like to spend money on luxuries. A
total no-brainer!

You have obviously not thought that through to its logical conclusion

My logical conclusion was that I could not afford to get treatment for a
chronic health problem, since my portion of the expenses was more than my
discretionary income - and yes, I am "covered" under a[n] employer
provided "health plan". I really need to start trying to get a job in
Canada.

More than 50% of recent personal bankruptcies in the US are from people
who got sick, lost their jobs and/or health coverage or exceeded the
coverage limits, and exhausted their financial assets on medical bills.
Great system, eh?

Mr. Sherman is a professional civil engineer with a very good job and yet he
finds himself in trouble. That says it all.

No nation that has gone to government paid health care has ever voted to
give it up. Most of us do not want transplants or other heroic medical
procedures, but we do want garden variety health care. Heath care needs to
be made a right and not something you can only get if you can afford to pay
for it. Where the Hell did such a crazy idea ever come from in the first
place?

The sooner the present system goes kaput, the better. If I did not have the
VA, I would have to think about emigrating to Canada myself.


I suggested this to you elsewhe Relocate the capital to Ottawa. How
would we go about it? (Within the Constitution, that is?)

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
On Aug 4, 6:02 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:
donquijote1954 who? wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:
donquijote1954 who? wrote:
...
OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
Google "Hubbert's Peak.
Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.
How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
danger of cycling.


OK, let me put my week of watching predator behavior (Shark Week on
Discovery Channel) to the test... Some fearless people have learned to
hang from the pectoral fin of a shark and get a free ride! But one guy
was bitten in front of the camera and his calf was gone. And then we
have the majority of people who just fear the shark, period.

So how this majority of people want to approach the predator is up to
them, but I'd start by, a) TAMING THE BEAST (traffic calming
measures), and/or b) separating the predator from the prey (BIKE
LANES). And since some of you don't want to hear about the latter
(everyone has a phobia), then let's turn our attention to...

(all of these things are a package that comes with the revolution)

TRAFFIC CALMING

Traffic calming is a set of strategies used by urban planners and
traffic engineers which aim to slow down or reduce traffic, thereby
improving safety for pedestrians and bicyclists as well as improving
the environment for residents. Calming measures are common in Europe,
especially Northern Europe; less so in North America.

Traffic calming was traditionally justified on the grounds of
pedestrian safety and reduction of noise and local air pollution which
are side effects of the traffic. However, streets have many social and
recreational functions which are severely impaired by car traffic. The
Livable Streets study by Donald Appleyard (circa 1977) found that
residents of streets with light traffic had, on average, three more
friends and twice as many acquaintances as the people on streets with
heavy traffic which were otherwise similar in dimensions, income, etc.
For much of the twentieth century, streets were designed by engineers
who were charged only with ensuring traffic flow and not with
fostering the other functions of streets. The basis for traffic
calming is broadening traffic engineering to include designing for
these functions.

There are 3 "E"'s that traffic engineers refer to when discussing
traffic calming: engineering, (community) education, and (police)
enforcement. Because neighborhood traffic management studies have
shown that often it is the residents themselves who are contributing
to the perceived speeding problem within the neighborhood, it is
stressed that the most effective traffic calming plans will entail all
three components, and that engineering measures alone will not produce
satisfactory results.

A number of visual changes to roads are being made to many streets to
bring about more attentive driving, reduced speeds, reduced crashes,
and greater tendency to yield to pedestrians. Visual traffic calming
includes lane narrowings (9-10'), road diets (reduction in lanes), use
of trees next to streets, on-street parking, and buildings placed in
urban fashion close to streets.

Some additional traffic calming techniques that are often used are
speed humps, speed cushions, and speed tables. These devices vary in
size based on the desired speed. Humps, cushions and tables slow cars
to between 10 and 25 miles per hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

COMING SOON
http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/...ution%21& l4=


All of that ignores the real problem that no one wants to deal with
because of the difficulties in implementing the solution.

The could be a decent life for everyone if the world's population was 2
to 2.5 Billion. At 6.5+ Billion or more, forget about it, and that
includes low enough traffic to make cycling reasonable almost everywhere.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Aug 5, 11:18 am, donquijote1954
wrote:
On Aug 5, 7:12 am, "Edward Dolan" wrote:



"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote in s.com...

Andrew Muzi wrote:
However, I stand by my statement that the free-market has failed,
since there is no real free-market health care system in the US.

"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" wrote
Seeing as it's never really been tried, except perhaps many moons ago
when health care was nowhere near as complex and expensive as it is
now,

Joe the Aroma WHO? wrote:
I think it's hasty to make that conclusion.

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote
My point exactly. The FREE MARKET is failing to provide free market
health care in the U.S.

Edward Dolan wrote:
Mr. Sherman is quite corred on this matter of health care in the US. The
present system is broken and cannot be fixed except by a single payer
system (the government). Such a health care system will be like the
public school system. It is not socialism, but simply good common sense.
It ought to be financed via higher progressive income taxes on the rich
and/or a value added tax on those who like to spend money on luxuries. A
total no-brainer!

You have obviously not thought that through to its logical conclusion

My logical conclusion was that I could not afford to get treatment for a
chronic health problem, since my portion of the expenses was more than my
discretionary income - and yes, I am "covered" under a[n] employer
provided "health plan". I really need to start trying to get a job in
Canada.

More than 50% of recent personal bankruptcies in the US are from people
who got sick, lost their jobs and/or health coverage or exceeded the
coverage limits, and exhausted their financial assets on medical bills.
Great system, eh?

Mr. Sherman is a professional civil engineer with a very good job and yet he
finds himself in trouble. That says it all.

No nation that has gone to government paid health care has ever voted to
give it up. Most of us do not want transplants or other heroic medical
procedures, but we do want garden variety health care. Heath care needs to
be made a right and not something you can only get if you can afford to pay
for it. Where the Hell did such a crazy idea ever come from in the first
place?

The sooner the present system goes kaput, the better. If I did not have the
VA, I would have to think about emigrating to Canada myself.

I suggested this to you elsewhe Relocate the capital to Ottawa. How
would we go about it? (Within the Constitution, that is?)


Hey, that's where I live! We've got some very nice bike paths (sorry,
"multi-user recreational pathwways" that started out as just bike
paths) , about 180 kilometres worth. I use them on occasion, but
there is enough of a cycling presence here that most motorists are
pretty considerate. There are of course a few suburban arterial roads
that I'd rather not be on if I can help it, but then again I try to
avoid the suburbs in general.

That said, we have a severe shortage of family doctors here. In Ottawa
I think the number without a family physician is 40%. Of course there
are lots of walk-in clinics, but a regular family doctor is much
preferred as one gets old and starts needing those regular tests...

Mark

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:
donquijote1954 who? wrote:
OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
Google "Hubbert's Peak.
Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.

"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote
How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
danger of cycling.

Edward Dolan wrote:
Cycling on highways with lots of traffic and no shoulders is extremely
dangerous. Even an idiot knows that much.

Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
bitching will kill you sooner.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew Muzi wrote:

Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
bitching will kill you sooner.

Don't you find the commute much safer when UW is on break? The moronic
undergraduate pedestrians wandering out into the street and idiotic
motor scooter riders create considerable chaos.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...

On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" wrote:
Google "Hubbert's Peak.

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.

"Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" wrote:
How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
danger of cycling.

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
OK, let me put my week of watching predator behavior (Shark Week on
Discovery Channel) to the test... Some fearless people have learned to
hang from the pectoral fin of a shark and get a free ride! But one guy
was bitten in front of the camera and his calf was gone. And then we
have the majority of people who just fear the shark, period.

So how this majority of people want to approach the predator is up to
them, but I'd start by, a) TAMING THE BEAST (traffic calming
measures), and/or b) separating the predator from the prey (BIKE
LANES). And since some of you don't want to hear about the latter
(everyone has a phobia), then let's turn our attention to...
(all of these things are a package that comes with the revolution)
TRAFFIC CALMING
Traffic calming is a set of strategies used by urban planners and
traffic engineers which aim to slow down or reduce traffic, thereby
improving safety for pedestrians and bicyclists as well as improving
the environment for residents. Calming measures are common in Europe,
especially Northern Europe; less so in North America.

Traffic calming was traditionally justified on the grounds of
pedestrian safety and reduction of noise and local air pollution which
-snip-
Some additional traffic calming techniques that are often used are
speed humps, speed cushions, and speed tables. These devices vary in
size based on the desired speed. Humps, cushions and tables slow cars
to between 10 and 25 miles per hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

COMING SOON
http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/...ution%21& l4=

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
All of that ignores the real problem that no one wants to deal with
because of the difficulties in implementing the solution.
The could be a decent life for everyone if the world's population was 2
to 2.5 Billion. At 6.5+ Billion or more, forget about it, and that
includes low enough traffic to make cycling reasonable almost everywhere.

A highly elitist analysis. (you volunteering to disappear??)

Let's go back to the real world and attainable solutions.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew Muzi wrote:
donquijote1954 who? wrote:
OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS
THE
SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...

On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:
Google "Hubbert's Peak.

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.

"Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" wrote:
How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous
cycling is
and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the
true
danger of cycling.

donquijote1954 who? wrote:
OK, let me put my week of watching predator behavior (Shark Week on
Discovery Channel) to the test... Some fearless people have learned to
hang from the pectoral fin of a shark and get a free ride! But one guy
was bitten in front of the camera and his calf was gone. And then we
have the majority of people who just fear the shark, period.

So how this majority of people want to approach the predator is up to
them, but I'd start by, a) TAMING THE BEAST (traffic calming
measures), and/or b) separating the predator from the prey (BIKE
LANES). And since some of you don't want to hear about the latter
(everyone has a phobia), then let's turn our attention to...
(all of these things are a package that comes with the revolution)
TRAFFIC CALMING
Traffic calming is a set of strategies used by urban planners and
traffic engineers which aim to slow down or reduce traffic, thereby
improving safety for pedestrians and bicyclists as well as improving
the environment for residents. Calming measures are common in Europe,
especially Northern Europe; less so in North America.

Traffic calming was traditionally justified on the grounds of
pedestrian safety and reduction of noise and local air pollution which
-snip-
Some additional traffic calming techniques that are often used are
speed humps, speed cushions, and speed tables. These devices vary in
size based on the desired speed. Humps, cushions and tables slow cars
to between 10 and 25 miles per hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

COMING SOON
http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/...ution%21& l4=


Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
All of that ignores the real problem that no one wants to deal with
because of the difficulties in implementing the solution.
The could be a decent life for everyone if the world's population was
2 to 2.5 Billion. At 6.5+ Billion or more, forget about it, and that
includes low enough traffic to make cycling reasonable almost everywhere.

A highly elitist analysis. (you volunteering to disappear??)

I have no children and no plans to have any. Good enough?

Let's go back to the real world and attainable solutions.

The world will implement population control, and there will be nothing
the foolish hominids can do about it.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Andrew Muzi wrote:
Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long
gone from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between
buses in the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah!
Sitting home bitching will kill you sooner.

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
Don't you find the commute much safer when UW is on break? The moronic
undergraduate pedestrians wandering out into the street and idiotic
motor scooter riders create considerable chaos.

you're right. A drunk corn-fed 300lb Sophomore on a Spree is a daunting
sight careening through a red light.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Bill Z. wrote:
Martin Dann writes:

Bill Z. wrote:
Martin Dann writes:

Bring it up with the state legislature. That's who wrote it. If you
get a ticket for crawling along in the left lane, however, feel free
to use that argument of yours in court and see how far it gets you.
I'm sure the judge will not be amused, other than by the expression
on your face when he tells you the fine.

I crawled home tonight in the left lane, I was tired from
a hard days work in the office.

The UK is not in California. Your state legislature, much as it would
like to, does not write laws for the rest of the world.

Having trouble with context, I see.

I think you are the one having trouble here. You are
cross-posting to UK.rec.cycling. Your state legislature
does not have powers to make laws here, or for 90+% of the
readers of the groups you are posting to.

So if I am in court, and the Judge tries to judge me by Californian
law. My barrister would have the case thrown out before you could say
"Moron".

Your barrister would not be allowed to practice law here unless he was
also a member of the California bar.

Why would my barrister be arguing in a Californian court,
when I am never likely to visit your state.

I don't think you understand that California does not
equal The World.

On Aug 5, 3:24 pm, A Muzi wrote:
donquijote1954 who? wrote:
On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
wrote:
donquijote1954 who? wrote:
OK, with such a motivation (warning the novices against you), I ask
you (I hope there are many witnesses out there), WHAT THE HELL IS THE
SOLUTION, so we can go from 1% to, say, 30% ridership?...
Google "Hubbert's Peak.
Oil production peak... It's gonna be fun to be alive and watch the
couch potatos finally pedalling when things finally start going down
hill (it'll be up hill for them though). I don't see much prevention
in practice, particularly when bicycles are mostly banned from the
dangerous roads --banned by fear, that is.
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" wrote
How about stopping all the fear-mongering about how dangerous cycling is
and the related promotion of h*lm*ts and segregated facilities? Chicken
Little was wrong about the sky falling, and you are wrong about the true
danger of cycling.
Edward Dolan wrote:
Cycling on highways with lots of traffic and no shoulders is extremely
dangerous. Even an idiot knows that much.

Ed, it hasn't killed me yet- even though most of my cohort is long gone
from other causes. Want an aderenalin buzz? Follow me between buses in
the morning, brushing elbows on both sides. Danger? Bah! Sitting home
bitching will kill you sooner.
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971-

For some people the option is STATIONARY BIKES. (And they come with
handlebars for upper body workout,)