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  #121  
Old July 19th 11, 07:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
James[_8_]
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On 19/07/2011 4:01 PM, "T°m [email protected]" wrote:
On 7/18/2011 9:57 PM, Mike Vandeman wrote:
And a god reason to ban bikes from them.

^^^

Why bring religion into the discussion?


I already did that one. Wake up, T°m!

--
JS
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  #122  
Old July 19th 11, 07:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
T°m [email protected]
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On 7/18/2011 9:58 PM, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:56 pm, "T°m [email protected]"""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/17/2011 8:50 PM, James wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote:
[...]
No one in their right mind wants to encounter a bike in the woods.


And neither do they want to encounter you.


Especially if Mikey V. is armed with a HANDSAW.

If
we wanted to be around bikes& other big, fast-moving pieces of
MACHINERY, we would stay in the ciity! DUH!


Most sane, sensible and reasonable folks, do not lump bicycles with "big
fast-moving pieces of MACHINERY."


You are obviously neither sane, nor sensible nor reasonable.


Stating the obvious.

You are right. So don't allow bikes off-road. QED


Corrected - Feel sorry for Mike V., who is obviously delusional and in
need of mental care and possibly a straight jacket.


"On March 21, 2011, a jury convicted defendant Michael Vandeman of In
June of 2009, the defendant blocked the path of a victim while he was
mountain biking on the East-West fire trail near U.C. Berkeley. The
defendant told the victim he was not allowed to ride his bike on the
trail, refused to move out of the way, and an argument ensued. The
defendant then removed a small screwdriver from his pocket and held it
at his side. After several minutes the defendant put the screwdriver
back in his pocket and the victim was able to push the defendant aside
and escape. In March of 2010, the defendant grabbed the arm of a
different victim who was riding his bike on the same trail. The
defendant was yelling about the fact that bikes are not allowed on the
trail. The biker was pulled to a stop but was able to get away without
falling off of his bike. Finally, in May of 2010, the defendant blocked
the path of another mountain biking victim on the same trail. The
defendant grabbed the victim's bike and tried to break the brake handles
and take off the front wheel. After the victim told him to stop,
defendant took a small screwdriver out of his pocket and showed it to
the victim. The victim was able to turn around and ride away. The
Prosecutor was DDA Chris Cavagnaro." -
http://www.alcoda.org/news/recent_verdicts.

Mikey V. is so delusional, he will not admit to being on probation.


Your libel is duly noted. I said I don't have a PO, liar.


So what was your sentence for being convicted of two (2) counts of
brandishing a deadly weapon and one (1) count of battery?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #123  
Old July 19th 11, 12:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Mike Vandeman[_4_]
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On Jul 18, 11:28*pm, "Tm [email protected]" ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 7/18/2011 9:58 PM, Mike Vandeman wrote:



On Jul 17, 6:56 pm, "Tm [email protected]"""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" *wrote:
On 7/17/2011 8:50 PM, James wrote: *Mike Vandeman wrote:
[...]
No one in their right mind wants to encounter a bike in the woods.


And neither do they want to encounter you.


Especially if Mikey V. is armed with a HANDSAW.


If
we wanted to be around bikes& *other big, fast-moving pieces of
MACHINERY, we would stay in the ciity! DUH!


Most sane, sensible and reasonable folks, do not lump bicycles with "big
fast-moving pieces of MACHINERY."


You are obviously neither sane, nor sensible nor reasonable.


Stating the obvious.


You are right. So don't allow bikes off-road. QED


Corrected - Feel sorry for Mike V., who is obviously delusional and in
need of mental care and possibly a straight jacket.


"On March 21, 2011, a jury convicted defendant Michael Vandeman of In
June of 2009, the defendant blocked the path of a victim while he was
mountain biking on the East-West fire trail near U.C. Berkeley. The
defendant told the victim he was not allowed to ride his bike on the
trail, refused to move out of the way, and an argument ensued. The
defendant then removed a small screwdriver from his pocket and held it
at his side. After several minutes the defendant put the screwdriver
back in his pocket and the victim was able to push the defendant aside
and escape. In March of 2010, the defendant grabbed the arm of a
different victim who was riding his bike on the same trail. The
defendant was yelling about the fact that bikes are not allowed on the
trail. The biker was pulled to a stop but was able to get away without
falling off of his bike. Finally, in May of 2010, the defendant blocked
the path of another mountain biking victim on the same trail. The
defendant grabbed the victim's bike and tried to break the brake handles
and take off the front wheel. After the victim told him to stop,
defendant took a small screwdriver out of his pocket and showed it to
the victim. The victim was able to turn around and ride away. The
Prosecutor was DDA Chris Cavagnaro." -
http://www.alcoda.org/news/recent_verdicts.


That's not accurate. That's only the mountain bikers' version of
events.

Mikey V. is so delusional, he will not admit to being on probation.


Your libel is duly noted. I said I don't have a PO, liar.


So what was your sentence for being convicted of two (2) counts of
brandishing a deadly weapon and one (1) count of battery?


Since you claim to know everything, you should already know the
answer.

More important, when are you going to admit to LYING about me having a
PO, when you really didn't know whether I did or not? Do you know how
to tell when a mountain biker is lying? When their mouth is open.
  #124  
Old July 19th 11, 05:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Opus[_2_]
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Posts: 414
Default Why is Mikey even in this discussion?

On Jul 19, 6:47*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
snip everything


Can we get Mikey banned from RBR? The only reason he's here is because
Tom Sherman suggested using a bit of MTB technology to solve problems
related to SWB recumbent bicycles and tadpole style trikes. IOW the
discussion was initially about road vehicles adapting a bit of off-
road technology to solve a common problem when Mikey swooped in on his
anti-mountian bike tirade.
  #125  
Old July 20th 11, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
T°m [email protected]
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On 7/18/2011 9:57 PM, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:50 pm, wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
[...]

Yes, many of the fire trails I mountain bike on are surrounded by
nature. That is typical of fire trail location.


And a god reason to ban bikes from them.[...]

^^^

Now Mikey V. is claiming to be a god?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #126  
Old July 20th 11, 01:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
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T*m Sherm^n wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote:

James*wrote:

Yes, many of the fire trails I mountain bike on are surrounded by
nature. *That is typical of fire trail location.


And a god reason to ban bikes from them.[...]


Now Mikey V. is claiming to be a god?


You couldn't already tell by the arbitrary and nonsensical
pronouncements? He's OT-style. That's both Old Testament and Off
Topic.

Chalo
  #127  
Old July 20th 11, 07:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
RobertH
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On Jul 14, 2:38 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Jul 14, 1:02 pm, Peter Cole wrote:



On 7/14/2011 10:48 AM, SMS wrote:


On 7/12/2011 5:08 PM, James wrote:


Horses also leave lots of manure that may contain foreign seeds, and it
is said heavy hooves damage delicate soil structures, in this country.


MV is probably very opposed to horses as well but since one of his only
supporters is a real estate agent that bills herself as a "Horse
Property Specialist," he feels obligated to not publicly oppose them.


This is a shame since if he could be educated to direct his efforts
against the trail users that cause the most damage he would give up on
mountain bikes and concentrate on equestrians.


India has sacred cows, we've got sacred horses. I've ridden horses,
mountain biked and hiked on the same trails. No contest, horses trash
the place, but they're grandfathered in. It's ironic that many of our
local trails have seasonal closures during mud season, but the only
users who are excluded are bikers.


You obviously haven't studied the SCIENCE (REAL science, not the JUNK
science created by mountain bikers). The SCIENCE shows that mountain
bikers have greater impacts on erosion, plants, and animals, partly
because they generally travel several times as FAR and as FAST as
other trail users, multiplying their impacts. (Seehttp://mjvande/nfshost.com/scb7.htm.)


Your link doesn't work.

It's true that mtn bikers reach farther into the woods, thereby
creating more impact than they would on a short ride. However, speed
is not necessarily a bad thing in terms of wildlife impact. A hiker is
in the area longer, and therefore creates a longer-term impact. Also,
some species have been shown to recognize the threat of a human on
foot, while basically ignoring vehicles. This multiplies the impact of
a slow human on foot.

Generally speaking, mtn bikers have some negative impact on wildlife.
But hikers are in no position to get all self-righteous about the
negative impact caused by mtn. bikers. That would be very
hypocritical, based on all available evidence.

Besides that, horses evolved in North America, and hence arguably have
the right to go wherever they want to.


Horses were introduced to N. America by the Spanish in the 1500s.

What is your "PhD" all about?
  #128  
Old July 20th 11, 07:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Mike Vandeman[_4_]
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Posts: 1,755
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On Jul 19, 11:09*pm, RobertH wrote:
On Jul 14, 2:38 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:





On Jul 14, 1:02 pm, Peter Cole wrote:


On 7/14/2011 10:48 AM, SMS wrote:


On 7/12/2011 5:08 PM, James wrote:


Horses also leave lots of manure that may contain foreign seeds, and it
is said heavy hooves damage delicate soil structures, in this country.


MV is probably very opposed to horses as well but since one of his only
supporters is a real estate agent that bills herself as a "Horse
Property Specialist," he feels obligated to not publicly oppose them.


This is a shame since if he could be educated to direct his efforts
against the trail users that cause the most damage he would give up on
mountain bikes and concentrate on equestrians.


India has sacred cows, we've got sacred horses. I've ridden horses,
mountain biked and hiked on the same trails. No contest, horses trash
the place, but they're grandfathered in. It's ironic that many of our
local trails have seasonal closures during mud season, but the only
users who are excluded are bikers.


You obviously haven't studied the SCIENCE (REAL science, not the JUNK
science created by mountain bikers). The SCIENCE shows that mountain
bikers have greater impacts on erosion, plants, and animals, partly
because they generally travel several times as FAR and as FAST as
other trail users, multiplying their impacts. (Seehttp://mjvande/nfshost.com/scb7.htm.)


Your link doesn't work.

It's true that mtn bikers reach farther into the woods, thereby
creating more impact than they would on a short ride. However, speed
is not necessarily a bad thing in terms of wildlife impact. A hiker is
in the area longer, and therefore creates a longer-term impact. Also,
some species have been shown to recognize the threat of a human on
foot, while basically ignoring vehicles. This multiplies the impact of
a slow human on foot.

Generally speaking, mtn bikers have some negative impact on wildlife.
But hikers are in no position to get all self-righteous about the
negative impact caused by mtn. bikers. That would be very
hypocritical, based on all available evidence.

Besides that, horses evolved in North America, and hence arguably have
the right to go wherever they want to.


Horses were introduced to N. America by the Spanish in the 1500s.


That has nothing to do with what I said: "horses evolved in North
America, and hence arguably have
the right to go wherever they want to".

What is your "PhD" all about?


Psychology/Psychometrics,
  #129  
Old July 20th 11, 07:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
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Mike Vandeman wrote:

RobertH wrote:

What is your "PhD" all about?


Psychology/Psychometrics,


LOL!

  #130  
Old July 20th 11, 07:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.mountain-bike,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
RobertH
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Posts: 342
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On Jul 18, 9:00 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:

BS. I wrote the ONLY scientific paper on the subject. Every allegedly
"scientific" paper written by a mountain biker was fatally biased and
dishonest.


I read these and they didn't seem all that fatally biased or
dishonest:

IMPACTS OF EXPERIMENTALLY APPLIED MOUNTAIN BIKING AND HIKING ON
VEGETATION AND SOIL 2001 article by Thurston and Reader, Environmental
Management. Study showed potentially severe impacts from both
activities, and similar recovery times.

EROSIONAL IMPACT OF HIKERS, HORSES, MOTORCYCLES, AND OFF-ROAD BICYCLES
ON MOUNTAIN TRAILS IN MONTANA Wilson and Seney, Mountain Research and
Development, 1994.

If we're going to be really honest with ourselves, and I don't suppose
we are, we'll have to admit that the trail itself is an unholy
unnatural gash through the wilderness. (This also confirmed by
scientific research.) Worrying so much about trail damage is kind of
fundamentally bogus as an environmentalist cause.

If you really care about wildlife, destroy the trail entirely, then
keep your animal-terrorizing self at home and out of the wilderness..
 




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