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TdF and recumbents



 
 
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  #221  
Old August 4th 08, 02:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Clive George
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Posts: 5,394
Default TdF and recumbents

wrote in message
...

Seems like the aerodynamic advantage is really a disadvantage during
training. So, the recumbent riders training for the race, would use a
method of reducing the aerodynamic advantage by adding wind
resistance, like putting up a small parachute/sail on the bike that
increased drag. Then, their physical reserve would be the same as a
diamond frame rider, by not having the drag of the sail during the
actual race. This would be like a runner training with a 40 lb. back
pack and then not having the back pack during an actual race.


Do runners find that training with a 40lb back pack improves their
performance come the actual race? I'm guessing the answer is no, since I'm
not aware that any do.

The recumbent riders training for the race would merely train at higher
speeds - there's no rules saying they can't - which would prepare them
better for the actual race.


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  #222  
Old August 4th 08, 03:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default TdF and recumbents

Clive George wrote:

Do runners find that training with a 40lb back pack improves their
performance come the actual race? I'm guessing the answer is no, since I'm
not aware that any do.

The recumbent riders training for the race would merely train at higher
speeds - there's no rules saying they can't - which would prepare them
better for the actual race.


Indeed. While there are exceptions[1], it's typically the case that the
best practice for X is X.

Pete.

[1] marathon running, for example
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #223  
Old August 5th 08, 02:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default TdF and recumbents

wrote:
The key is to remember that aerodynamic resistance increases with the
square of the rider's airspeed. Therefore, for average club riders, both
upright and recumbent riders will be going slowly enough that rolling
resistance and mechanical losses in the drive train will dominate, which
favors the upright. However, with a professional level rider putting out
400W on a climb, speeds become high enough that aerodynamics does
matter, even on a relatively steep climb, and an upright rider out of
the saddle is not very aerodynamic. Is the aerodynamic advantage of the
recumbent at very high rider output levels enough to compensate for the
advantages of the upright? I do not know, and more importantly, neither
does anyone else.


Seems like the aerodynamic advantage is really a disadvantage during
training. So, the recumbent riders training for the race, would use a
method of reducing the aerodynamic advantage by adding wind
resistance, like putting up a small parachute/sail on the bike that
increased drag. Then, their physical reserve would be the same as a
diamond frame rider, by not having the drag of the sail during the
actual race. This would be like a runner training with a 40 lb. back
pack and then not having the back pack during an actual race.


If upright cyclists train with heavy bicycles, it is rare.

The important thing is to train with people who are slightly faster, so
you are always pushing yourself. This can be accomplished by finding
faster riders or a slower bicycle.

Riding with a pack of uprights on a Velokraft NoCom will not provide
nearly the workout as doing the same ride on a Sun EZ-1 SC.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
  #224  
Old August 5th 08, 03:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
[email protected]
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Posts: 76
Default TdF and recumbents

Seems like the aerodynamic advantage is really a disadvantage during
training. So, the recumbent riders training for the race, would use a
method of reducing the aerodynamic advantage by adding wind
resistance, like putting up a small parachute/sail on the bike that
increased drag. Then, their physical reserve would be the same as a
diamond frame rider, by not having the drag of the sail during the
actual race. This would be like a runner training with a 40 lb. back
pack and then not having the back pack during an actual race.


Do runners find that training with a 40lb back pack improves their
performance come the actual race? I'm guessing the answer is no, since I'm
not aware that any do.


Bad analogy. How about training on a diamond frame by riding into the
wind? then switching to a highway bicycle (recumbent) for the actual
race. Would that work? Or maybe setting the back brake on partially
for drag? Or riding with very soft tires. Or how about this: just
using one leg for a mile then switching to the other leg and back and
forth. Okay, seriously, there's no other method to get in shape other
than riding a little faster?
  #225  
Old August 5th 08, 04:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default TdF and recumbents

wrote:
Seems like the aerodynamic advantage is really a disadvantage during
training. So, the recumbent riders training for the race, would use a
method of reducing the aerodynamic advantage by adding wind
resistance, like putting up a small parachute/sail on the bike that
increased drag. Then, their physical reserve would be the same as a
diamond frame rider, by not having the drag of the sail during the
actual race. This would be like a runner training with a 40 lb. back
pack and then not having the back pack during an actual race.

Do runners find that training with a 40lb back pack improves their
performance come the actual race? I'm guessing the answer is no, since I'm
not aware that any do.


Bad analogy. How about training on a diamond frame by riding into the
wind? then switching to a highway bicycle (recumbent) for the actual
race. Would that work? Or maybe setting the back brake on partially
for drag? Or riding with very soft tires. Or how about this: just
using one leg for a mile then switching to the other leg and back and
forth. Okay, seriously, there's no other method to get in shape other
than riding a little faster?


It is the effort that matters, not the actual speed.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
  #226  
Old August 5th 08, 06:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Espressopithecus (Java Man)
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Posts: 408
Default TdF and recumbents

In article , sunsetss0003
@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says...
Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
In article , sunsetss0003
@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman wrote:

"Dear Carl" would rather snipe on Usenet under a cover of smarm (and
write complaining letters to the parents of people he disagrees with).
Don't ever mess with me, Sherman: I send people John Tesh albums.

That is worse than sending weaponized anthrax.

No, I really did,

What about people you really hate? Barry Manilow?

Celine Dion. I crossed him once, but will never make that mistake
again.

Well, at least it was not Alanis Morissette [1].

I'll take her over Celine Dion any day.

Java
  #227  
Old August 5th 08, 07:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Kerry Montgomery
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Posts: 676
Default TdF and recumbents


"Espressopithecus (Java Man)" wrote in message
ble.net...
In article , sunsetss0003
@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says...
Espressopithecus (Java Man) wrote:
In article , sunsetss0003
@REMOVETHISyahoo.com says...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman wrote:

"Dear Carl" would rather snipe on Usenet under a cover of smarm (and
write complaining letters to the parents of people he disagrees
with).
Don't ever mess with me, Sherman: I send people John Tesh albums.

That is worse than sending weaponized anthrax.

No, I really did,

What about people you really hate? Barry Manilow?

Celine Dion. I crossed him once, but will never make that mistake
again.

Well, at least it was not Alanis Morissette [1].

I'll take her over Celine Dion any day.

Java


[1] Not to be confused with Allison Moyet, who is both preferable to all of
the above and could take any of 'em in a straight fight.
Kerry


  #228  
Old August 5th 08, 08:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default TdF and recumbents

Tom Sherman wrote:

It is the effort that matters, not the actual speed.


Up to a point...

"So Joe, disaster there as you failed to take the bend at speed...
before the ambulance takes you away, what went wrong?"

"I don't know, I always got round it fine in training..."

Static exercise bikes are a great training aid for the committed, but
there are some things they don't do. Also the case for hamstrung bikes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #229  
Old August 6th 08, 02:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default TdF and recumbents

Peter Clinch wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:

It is the effort that matters, not the actual speed.


Up to a point...

"So Joe, disaster there as you failed to take the bend at speed...
before the ambulance takes you away, what went wrong?"

"I don't know, I always got round it fine in training..."

Static exercise bikes are a great training aid for the committed, but
there are some things they don't do. Also the case for hamstrung bikes.

Joe? I think you mean Jan.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
 




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