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TdF and recumbents



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 28th 08, 06:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Default TdF and recumbents

Clive George wrote:
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...

Andy Wilkinson's UK End-toEnd record is a good case for recumebnts. When
he set the record on a recumbent he beat the existing record held by...
himself, on an upright!

in other words, he had, if anything, considerably more upright experience
yet still posted a better time on the 'bent.


Dare I mention that it was faired? Was the upright?

A faired upright is a close relative of the box kite.

Way too much side area to ride in anything but still conditions.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
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  #22  
Old July 28th 08, 06:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Default TdF and recumbents

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...

Andy Wilkinson's UK End-toEnd record is a good case for recumebnts. When
he set the record on a recumbent he beat the existing record held by...
himself, on an upright!

in other words, he had, if anything, considerably more upright experience
yet still posted a better time on the 'bent.

Dare I mention that it was faired? Was the upright?


I suspect it is nick and tuck between recumbents and uprights on the flats,
but it can't be that in the mountains. I just don't see how recumbents can
climb hills at all well, fairing or no fairing.

Recumbents have a well deserved reputation for not being able to climb
hills. It is why all recumbents need to have very low gears compared to
uprights.

What Ed is missing is that the proper recumbent climbing technique
involves a higher cadence than the upright climbing technique.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
  #23  
Old July 28th 08, 06:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Kunich
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Default TdF and recumbents

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

What Ed is missing is that the proper recumbent climbing technique
involves a higher cadence than the upright climbing technique.


What you're missing is that you can stand on an upright and crawl over rough
ground at 2 mph. You cannot balance a recumbent at that speed nor could you
pedal up the very steep hills that require standing like that.

  #24  
Old July 28th 08, 07:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Peter Clinch
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Default TdF and recumbents

Tom Sherman wrote:

What Ed is missing is that the proper recumbent climbing technique
involves a higher cadence than the upright climbing technique.


I think it would be fairer to say "proper technique" on any bike
depends on the rider and their situation, not just wehther they're
on a wedgie or a 'bent.

I spin low gears whether I'm on the seat or in a saddle. Anyone
tring to honk on a Moulton is wasting their time, honking up a
short hill is one thing, up a 10 km climb is quite another. As
usual, "it depends".

But if recumbents were basically incapable of any sort of efficient
climbing to the point they weren't contenders in Real Races, the
e2e record would not be held on a Windcheetah (and up steep hills,
of course, a fairing is a *hindrance*, not a help.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #25  
Old July 28th 08, 07:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Kunich
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Default TdF and recumbents

"Tom Kunich" [email protected] com wrote in message
...
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

What Ed is missing is that the proper recumbent climbing technique
involves a higher cadence than the upright climbing technique.


What you're missing is that you can stand on an upright and crawl over
rough ground at 2 mph. You cannot balance a recumbent at that speed nor
could you pedal up the very steep hills that require standing like that.


And certainly recumbents are almost impossible off-road.

  #26  
Old July 28th 08, 07:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
[email protected]
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Default TdF and recumbents

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:35:20 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

[snip]

I spin low gears whether I'm on the seat or in a saddle. Anyone
tring to honk on a Moulton is wasting their time, honking up a
short hill is one thing, up a 10 km climb is quite another. As
usual, "it depends".


[snip]

Dear Peter,

Not arguing, just curious--is there an explanation for why can you
"honk" on a normal upright, but not on a Moulton, or is it just an
observation?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
  #27  
Old July 28th 08, 08:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
A Muzi
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Default TdF and recumbents

Peter Clinch wrote:
[snip]
I spin low gears whether I'm on the seat or in a saddle. Anyone
tring to honk on a Moulton is wasting their time, honking up a
short hill is one thing, up a 10 km climb is quite another. As
usual, "it depends".
[snip]


wrote:
Not arguing, just curious--is there an explanation for why can you
"honk" on a normal upright, but not on a Moulton, or is it just an
observation?


George Mount won the California State Cat 1 Road Race on a Moulton.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from
http://www.teranews.com **
  #28  
Old July 29th 08, 02:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default TdF and recumbents

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
Surely there are near professional type races in the mountains which pit
uprights against recumbents. Find out the results of such races and
report back to me.

Go to the article on page 14 about the Trondheim-Oslo event:
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/oldnews/Issue51.pdf.


An interesting pdf, but too much of that British HPV stuff will rot your
brain.

I will admit that a recumbent with a full body fairing can be amazingly
fast. I still don't think they can be all that fast going up a steep hill
though.

I remember a tour I was on (BRAN I think) and there was this rather chubby
guy who had a RANS Tailwind with a full body fairing (home made).


Anyone with a RANS Tailwind and a homemade full-fairing is beyond the pale.

Oops, http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Sherman.htm .

No one
could catch him once he got going. He was also fast going up hills provided
they were not too steep.

With the body-sock fairing on my Tailwind, I was faster up grades less
than about 4% due to the aerodynamic advantage, despite the extra 10
pounds of weight.

I think to be fair about this, you would have to pit a faired recumbent
against a faired upright in a largely mountainous terrain. Otherwise, you
are comparing apples to oranges and not getting to the heart of the
question, which is - can recumbents climb hills as well as uprights? I say
no.

The faired upright would get blown of the road by the first wind gust.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
  #29  
Old July 29th 08, 02:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default TdF and recumbents

Tom Kunich wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

What Ed is missing is that the proper recumbent climbing technique
involves a higher cadence than the upright climbing technique.


What you're missing is that you can stand on an upright and crawl over
rough ground at 2 mph. You cannot balance a recumbent at that speed nor
could you pedal up the very steep hills that require standing like that.

Who is advocating a recumbent for technical off-road anyhow???

How many paved roads are steep enough to slow an average rider down to
2-mph? Almost none.

I can snooze on my recumbent and not fall over:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1940446684/.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
  #30  
Old July 29th 08, 02:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Tom Sherman[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,890
Default TdF and recumbents

Tom Kunich wrote:
"Tom Kunich" [email protected] com wrote in message
...
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...

What Ed is missing is that the proper recumbent climbing technique
involves a higher cadence than the upright climbing technique.


What you're missing is that you can stand on an upright and crawl over
rough ground at 2 mph. You cannot balance a recumbent at that speed
nor could you pedal up the very steep hills that require standing like
that.


And certainly recumbents are almost impossible off-road.

Lots of off-road riding and hills that have to be climbed at 2-mph in
the TdF.

Whats up with bringing off-road cycling into the discussion?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
 




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