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  #1  
Old January 5th 09, 02:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 181
Default Disc brakes

I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect. Never
have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer Lips', but the
article makes a good point about safety.
Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?
Cosmetics over safety?
Bill Baka
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  #4  
Old January 5th 09, 05:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Sherman[_2_]
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Posts: 9,890
Default Disc brakes

aka Bill Baka wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect.
Never have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer Lips',
but the article makes a good point about safety.


It? This:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/?

Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?


In addition to disc brakes? Too much expense and weight for unneeded
redundancy.

Cosmetics over safety?


The main points for disc brakes are they do not get fouled as easily
as rim brakes with water, dirt and snow, and do not wear the rim side
wall. Otherwise, rim brakes work just as well or better.

Disc brakes have a theoretical advantage in long winding descents,
since they do not heat the rim which can lead to tire blow off.
However, it is reported that most disc brakes rated for single (as
opposed to tandem) use do not have adequate heat capacity for this use.

Redundancy is what I meant. Weight is not a factor when you absolutely
MUST stop. I was thinking of safety, and the idea would be to use the
disc unless you squeezed handle **very** hard.
Just a back up.

Well, bikes generally have two independent braking systems, except for
coaster brake cruisers intended only for low speed use and brake-less
fixies ridden by hipster morons (velodrome only use excluded). Failures
of both brakes are almost unheard of.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll
  #5  
Old January 5th 09, 05:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 181
Default Disc brakes

Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect.
Never have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer
Lips', but the article makes a good point about safety.

It? This:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/?

Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?

In addition to disc brakes? Too much expense and weight for unneeded
redundancy.

Cosmetics over safety?

The main points for disc brakes are they do not get fouled as easily
as rim brakes with water, dirt and snow, and do not wear the rim
side wall. Otherwise, rim brakes work just as well or better.

Disc brakes have a theoretical advantage in long winding descents,
since they do not heat the rim which can lead to tire blow off.
However, it is reported that most disc brakes rated for single (as
opposed to tandem) use do not have adequate heat capacity for this use.

Redundancy is what I meant. Weight is not a factor when you
absolutely MUST stop. I was thinking of safety, and the idea would be
to use the disc unless you squeezed handle **very** hard.
Just a back up.

Well, bikes generally have two independent braking systems, except for
coaster brake cruisers intended only for low speed use and brake-less
fixies ridden by hipster morons (velodrome only use excluded).
Failures of both brakes are almost unheard of.


What is relevant is that the back brake is not adequate on a steep dirt
downhill. I have done military design work in electronics and they
absolutely want redundancy.
As to getting a coaster brake bike in some of the mountain trails I tend
to ride it would only be by carrying the bike, so I am thinking of
blazing downhill .
Bill Baka
  #6  
Old January 5th 09, 07:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 4,044
Default Disc brakes

In article ,
" wrote:

Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect.
Never have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer
Lips', but the article makes a good point about safety.

It? This:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/?

Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?

In addition to disc brakes? Too much expense and weight for unneeded
redundancy.

Cosmetics over safety?

The main points for disc brakes are they do not get fouled as easily
as rim brakes with water, dirt and snow, and do not wear the rim
side wall. Otherwise, rim brakes work just as well or better.

Disc brakes have a theoretical advantage in long winding descents,
since they do not heat the rim which can lead to tire blow off.
However, it is reported that most disc brakes rated for single (as
opposed to tandem) use do not have adequate heat capacity for this use.

Redundancy is what I meant. Weight is not a factor when you
absolutely MUST stop. I was thinking of safety, and the idea would be
to use the disc unless you squeezed handle **very** hard.
Just a back up.

Well, bikes generally have two independent braking systems, except for
coaster brake cruisers intended only for low speed use and brake-less
fixies ridden by hipster morons (velodrome only use excluded).
Failures of both brakes are almost unheard of.


What is relevant is that the back brake is not adequate on a steep dirt
downhill. I have done military design work in electronics and they
absolutely want redundancy.
As to getting a coaster brake bike in some of the mountain trails I tend
to ride it would only be by carrying the bike, so I am thinking of
blazing downhill .
Bill Baka


While I think this isn't a very useful thing to do, Sheldon has done it:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-rohloff/

Surly Karate Monkey with both drop bars and flat bars, and dual
independent braking systems. The drop bar brake levers run the discs,
the flat bar brake levers run the V-brakes.

Bonus: Rohloff 14-speed gearhub.

While I can conceive of a dirt descent so steep that a properly set up
rear brake would not stop you, in practice such descents are some
combination of short, have safe runoffs, or are vanishingly rare.

Furthermore, even if a rear brake won't stop you, it will slow you down,
so much so that you're incredibly unlikely to get seriously hurt.
Assuming you're not doing something like riding deep and fast into a
consequential braking zone (say, tight turn at bottom of steep descent
with no runoff), you'll have enough time for even a rear brake to do its
job.

The guys who actually ride steep stuff are serious downhill and
freeriders, and they use hydraulic disc brakes at both ends (steel
braided lines are available). They also wear full body armor and
full-face helmets, in deference to all the dangers of such riding, very
few of which involve spontaneous equipment failure.

It can be done, but it's unlikely to materially increase your lifespan.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
  #7  
Old January 5th 09, 10:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Disc brakes

Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect. Never
have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer Lips', but
the article makes a good point about safety.


It? This:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/?

Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?


In addition to disc brakes? Too much expense and weight for unneeded
redundancy.


You guys are a bit too hung up on weight. I will drag around an extra
pound if it makes my descents safer. I am not racing but out for the
exercise. The weight makes no difference on a flat road.

Cosmetics over safety?


The main points for disc brakes are they do not get fouled as easily as
rim brakes with water, dirt and snow, and do not wear the rim side wall.
Otherwise, rim brakes work just as well or better.

Disc brakes have a theoretical advantage in long winding descents, since
they do not heat the rim which can lead to tire blow off.


I have managed to get my front rim too hot to touch so I know about that
part. At that point I just stop and let it cool down.

However, it is
reported that most disc brakes rated for single (as opposed to tandem)
use do not have adequate heat capacity for this use.

They too can be cooked. I realize that but it is just physics and not
rocket science.
Bill Baka
  #8  
Old January 5th 09, 11:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Disc brakes

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
aka Bill Baka wrote:
I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect.
Never have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer
Lips', but the article makes a good point about safety.
It? This:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/?

Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?
In addition to disc brakes? Too much expense and weight for unneeded
redundancy.

Cosmetics over safety?
The main points for disc brakes are they do not get fouled as easily
as rim brakes with water, dirt and snow, and do not wear the rim
side wall. Otherwise, rim brakes work just as well or better.

Disc brakes have a theoretical advantage in long winding descents,
since they do not heat the rim which can lead to tire blow off.
However, it is reported that most disc brakes rated for single (as
opposed to tandem) use do not have adequate heat capacity for this use.

Redundancy is what I meant. Weight is not a factor when you
absolutely MUST stop. I was thinking of safety, and the idea would be
to use the disc unless you squeezed handle **very** hard.
Just a back up.

Well, bikes generally have two independent braking systems, except for
coaster brake cruisers intended only for low speed use and brake-less
fixies ridden by hipster morons (velodrome only use excluded).
Failures of both brakes are almost unheard of.

What is relevant is that the back brake is not adequate on a steep dirt
downhill. I have done military design work in electronics and they
absolutely want redundancy.
As to getting a coaster brake bike in some of the mountain trails I tend
to ride it would only be by carrying the bike, so I am thinking of
blazing downhill .
Bill Baka


While I think this isn't a very useful thing to do, Sheldon has done it:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-rohloff/

Surly Karate Monkey with both drop bars and flat bars, and dual
independent braking systems. The drop bar brake levers run the discs,
the flat bar brake levers run the V-brakes.

Bonus: Rohloff 14-speed gearhub.


I would ride that Rube Goldberg of a bike quite happily just for the
looks it would generate.


While I can conceive of a dirt descent so steep that a properly set up
rear brake would not stop you, in practice such descents are some
combination of short, have safe runoffs, or are vanishingly rare.


Some of the descents have Shale/Slate on them and nothing will work so I
have to carry the bike down past that area.

Furthermore, even if a rear brake won't stop you, it will slow you down,
so much so that you're incredibly unlikely to get seriously hurt.
Assuming you're not doing something like riding deep and fast into a
consequential braking zone (say, tight turn at bottom of steep descent
with no runoff), you'll have enough time for even a rear brake to do its
job.


I'm sane when I get totally out of cell phone range. I have managed to
knock out 2 front teeth in a crash and found out that dentists are
mercenaries. Never a broken bone but lots of scars.

The guys who actually ride steep stuff are serious downhill and
freeriders, and they use hydraulic disc brakes at both ends (steel
braided lines are available). They also wear full body armor and
full-face helmets, in deference to all the dangers of such riding, very
few of which involve spontaneous equipment failure.

It can be done, but it's unlikely to materially increase your lifespan.


At 60 I already have had a lifespan. Now I am working on my next 60.
I don't do those insane descents but they are fun to watch.
Bill Baka

  #9  
Old January 6th 09, 12:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
bluezfolk
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Posts: 180
Default Disc brakes

On Jan 4, 9:31*pm, " wrote:
I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect. Never
have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer Lips', but the
article makes a good point about safety.
Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?
Cosmetics over safety?
Bill Baka


Not that it means anything but I have seen bikes with a disc in front
and a rim brake in the rear, probably didn't come that way from the
factory though.

Eric
  #10  
Old January 6th 09, 10:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 352
Default Disc brakes

bluezfolk wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:31 pm, " wrote:
I went and I read and it seems that disc brakes are not perfect. Never
have I heard of a front wheel making it past the 'Lawyer Lips', but the
article makes a good point about safety.
Why not also have the standard rim brakes also?
Cosmetics over safety?
Bill Baka


Not that it means anything but I have seen bikes with a disc in front
and a rim brake in the rear, probably didn't come that way from the
factory though.

Eric


I don't think they are THERE because any SERIOUS breaking will just lock
the rear wheel and skid. Physics 101.
Bill Baka
 




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