Curiosity Killed the Cat

Frank,

With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?

After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion rates to begin with.

This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the frame on fire.

Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket significantly warmer than the cup.

Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and Sheldon.

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Frank,

With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?

After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion rates to begin with.

This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the frame on fire.

Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket significantly warmer than the cup.

Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and Sheldon.

How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:31:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Frank,

With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?

After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion rates to begin with.

This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the frame on fire.

Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket significantly warmer than the cup.

Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and Sheldon.

How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?

Doug, are you unaware that Frank is a mechanical engineer who could have readily calculated the difference in expansion rates across an inch and an half adjustable cup, known the difference in the coefficient of expansion the lack of heat conduction across the thread barrier and the extreme difficulty in getting an aluminum frame to heat more than the steel bottom bracket cup?

If you do not understand these and these lunatic suggestions to Ted on how to "loosen" his bottom bracket I don't have to wonder why YOU don't have any curiosity about it.

I can only conclude that Frank was getting a good laugh at everyone else but me and Andrew. Luckily Ted seemed to take it all in good humor.

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:49:12 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:31:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Frank,

With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?

After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion rates to begin with.

This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the frame on fire.

Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket significantly warmer than the cup.

Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and Sheldon.

How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?

Doug, are you unaware that Frank is a mechanical engineer who could have readily calculated the difference in expansion rates across an inch and an half adjustable cup, known the difference in the coefficient of expansion the lack of heat conduction across the thread barrier and the extreme difficulty in getting an aluminum frame to heat more than the steel bottom bracket cup?

I am aware of that, Tom! I am also aware that Frank likes to debate and is good at it and tends to not play all his cards at once. He might well have ran the calculation and then not disclosed the #s, thus far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFxcJp2VQPU

On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:49:10 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:31:51 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:

....This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting
his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer
was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware
that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and
Sheldon.

How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?

If you do not understand these and these lunatic suggestions to
Ted on how to "loosen" his bottom bracket I don't have to
wonder why YOU don't have any curiosity about it.

I can only conclude that Frank was getting a good laugh at
everyone else but me and Andrew. Luckily Ted seemed to take it
all in good humor.

Well, some of the discussion was fairly obviously theoretical
(e.g., what chemical treatments that might deal with various
oxides), but the line between practical and hypoethetical
approaches wasn't always entirely clear--especially with heating.
I filtered it all with what seemed to be possible within my range
of skills and available tools. Don't know if that's evidence of
good humor, good thinking, or stubborness. Maybe a bit of each.

I did enjoy the inputs, and most of the exchanges. Thanks to all!

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

On 1/12/2017 3:31 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Frank,

With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?

After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion rates to begin with.

This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the frame on fire.

Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket significantly warmer than the cup.

Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit of Jobst and Sheldon.

How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?


Long leadup to:

Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She
looks half-dead."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:00:13 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/12/2017 3:31 PM, Doug Landau wrote:

How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?


Long leadup to:

Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
half-dead."

LOL! Post of the week!

On 13/01/17 09:00, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/12/2017 3:31 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-8,
wrote:
Frank,

With all of this talk about heating the bottom bracket to get it
apart why didn't you explain and show the calculation that
demonstrated that the steel cup and the aluminum bottom bracket tube
hung on an aluminum frame would have a difference in expansion of a
couple of thousandths of an inch max even if you COULD get the
aluminum to heat faster than the steel cup?

After all, if you blow hot air down there the steel cup with a much
lower conduction rate would be getting warmer than the frame with
aluminum having between four and six times the heat conduction of
hardened steel and there only being a 44% difference in expansion
rates to begin with.

This is something that's right up your alley while we had all these
things from using a hair dryer to a welding torch trying to light the
frame on fire.

Since an 80 C warming difference in expansion would only be a couple
mils and what normally jams these cups in is rust expansion from
water leaking down the seat tube and onto the threads that are
slightly in the open part of the seat tube and bottom bracket
interface, this expansion can easily be twice or more what the
expansion could ever achieve even if you could get the bottom bracket
significantly warmer than the cup.

Or where you sitting back and enjoying the show? This assault on poor
Ted with everything from lighting his frame on fire to pounding it
into flakes with a hammer was pretty entertaining as long as you
weren't Ted unaware that most of the help here isn't since the exit
of Jobst and Sheldon.

How does the title of this thread relate to the subject?


Long leadup to:

Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
half-dead."


Which half?

--
JS

On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:25:58 +1100, James wrote:
On 13/01/17 09:00, AMuzi wrote:

Long leadup to:

Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
half-dead."


Which half?

I am not certain of that.

On 1/14/2017 11:01 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:25:58 +1100, James wrote:
On 13/01/17 09:00, AMuzi wrote:

Long leadup to:

Mrs Schrodinger asked, "What have you done to the cat? She looks
half-dead."


Which half?

I am not certain of that.


But we know the velocity.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971