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#181
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Why the pros are slowing down.
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#182
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 29, 1:57*pm, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 7/29/2012 9:29 AM, John B. wrote: On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:49:17 -0400, Duane wrote: On 7/29/2012 2:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: Op 29-7-2012 6:34, Frank Krygowski schreef: But she's so brave! *Taking her hands all the way off the bars to shift gears! *;-) It wouldn't be noteworthy, except for the comments we've seen that non- STI shifting is dangerous. *Yet here's this lady (collecting a retirement pension) who seems to not only use them without fear, she prefers them. *How has she survived?? By changing gear only when it is safe. What I noticed is that one effect of brifters was that people change gears much more often. Frank's "retired little old ladies aren't afraid of it" schtick notwithstanding, most people don't change gears often enough. *Having the shifters handy *makes it easier. *Not having to move your hands in a twisty descent is a plus in my opinion but it's also nice when riding in a tight group. Or are we now to understand that brifters are for cowards only? *I've never heard anyone that actually used brifters say that they prefer anything else. On the other hand I've had a number of cyclists ask me how do I shift with my friction bar end shifters and when I say something like, "just move the handle until you feel the bike shift" they scratch their heads and can't seem to understand how it can be done :-) I've used friction bar ends. *I have bar ends on one bike now but they're indexed. *I prefer brifters. *I'm just saying that I haven't heard anyone that tried brifters that didn't prefer them. My aunt's friend's step son's scoutmaster's ex-wife's therapist tried them once and didn't prefer them to her Sturmey Archer 3-speed. I guess that proves you wrong. DR |
#183
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Why the pros are slowing down.
Neither I nor a majority of cyclists need to worry about "optimum efficiency". That I can easily stay in the same gear and not have to shift to accelerate, and that I can do so as rapidly as most cyclists who shift to the optimum gear should say something. What it says is that it disagrees with the assertion that "people don't shift enough" (according to Lou). For the record I didn't say people don't shift enough. I only said that when brifters came along people were shifting more often so there was a need. I ride a singlespeed on my winter evening rides. Good training but not the best bike to set speed records. Lou |
#184
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On 7/29/2012 3:32 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Neither I nor a majority of cyclists need to worry about "optimum efficiency". That I can easily stay in the same gear and not have to shift to accelerate, and that I can do so as rapidly as most cyclists who shift to the optimum gear should say something. What it says is that it disagrees with the assertion that "people don't shift enough" (according to Lou). For the record I didn't say people don't shift enough. I only said that when brifters came along people were shifting more often so there was a need. I ride a singlespeed on my winter evening rides. Good training but not the best bike to set speed records. Lou Me too; my fixie is utterly reliable and that's a feature during the "elements eat bicycle equipment" season. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#185
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 29, 3:40*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2012 3:32 PM, Lou Holtman wrote: Neither I nor a majority of cyclists need to worry about "optimum efficiency". *That I can easily stay in the same gear and not have to shift to accelerate, and that I can do so as rapidly as most cyclists who shift to the optimum gear should say something. *What it says is that it disagrees with the assertion that "people don't shift enough" (according to Lou). For the record I didn't say people don't shift enough. I only said that when brifters came along people were shifting more often so there was a need. I ride a singlespeed on my winter evening rides. Good training but not the best bike to set speed records. Lou Me too; my fixie is utterly reliable and that's a feature during the "elements eat bicycle equipment" season. Back in the day, various old parts were saved, earmarked for the cold months and final destruction. Especially chains and chainrings. I don't know about "efficiency" but I don't have much problem telling the difference between a happy gear and an un-happy gear, no matter how fast or or what sort of terrain the bike is traveling. More = better and this from someone who used to at least occasionally ride fixed and single-speed on "duration rides" with the racer dudes. --D-y |
#186
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On 7/29/2012 4:10 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Jul 29, 1:57 pm, Duane wrote: On 7/29/2012 9:29 AM, John B. wrote: On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:49:17 -0400, Duane wrote: On 7/29/2012 2:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote: Op 29-7-2012 6:34, Frank Krygowski schreef: But she's so brave! Taking her hands all the way off the bars to shift gears! ;-) It wouldn't be noteworthy, except for the comments we've seen that non- STI shifting is dangerous. Yet here's this lady (collecting a retirement pension) who seems to not only use them without fear, she prefers them. How has she survived?? By changing gear only when it is safe. What I noticed is that one effect of brifters was that people change gears much more often. Frank's "retired little old ladies aren't afraid of it" schtick notwithstanding, most people don't change gears often enough. Having the shifters handy makes it easier. Not having to move your hands in a twisty descent is a plus in my opinion but it's also nice when riding in a tight group. Or are we now to understand that brifters are for cowards only? I've never heard anyone that actually used brifters say that they prefer anything else. On the other hand I've had a number of cyclists ask me how do I shift with my friction bar end shifters and when I say something like, "just move the handle until you feel the bike shift" they scratch their heads and can't seem to understand how it can be done :-) I've used friction bar ends. I have bar ends on one bike now but they're indexed. I prefer brifters. I'm just saying that I haven't heard anyone that tried brifters that didn't prefer them. My aunt's friend's step son's scoutmaster's ex-wife's therapist tried them once and didn't prefer them to her Sturmey Archer 3-speed. I guess that proves you wrong. Well now, I certainly can't say I've never heard of anyone saying that. g |
#187
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Why the pros are slowing down.
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#188
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 29, 10:13*am, Joe Riel wrote:
DirtRoadie writes: On Jul 29, 10:19*am, Joe Riel wrote: Jay Beattie writes: On Jul 28, 9:34*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Jul 28, 4:25*pm, Jay Beattie wrote: I was worried that he might start talking about the next door neighbor who is a MIT grad, rocket scientist and Nobel Prize winner who couldn't figure out how to fix his STI levers with a WD40 flush. *I guess super smart people don't have internet access. Come on, Jay. *There are people who are quite intelligent and competent in one field, but lack even basic knowledge in another. *The colleagues I referred to wouldn't try to practice law, but they can do things with electronics, microprocessors, solid modeling etc. that you will never master. *The fact that they're lousy bike mechanics does not make them dumb. And the fact that one person prefers friction shifting is like that one kid who likes Lima beans. But she's so brave! *Taking her hands all the way off the bars to shift gears! *;-) It wouldn't be noteworthy, except for the comments we've seen that non- STI shifting is dangerous. *Yet here's this lady (collecting a retirement pension) who seems to not only use them without fear, she prefers them. *How has she survived?? I think what we have seen is a comment from a top amateur racer about how it felt dangerous to take his hand off the bars while descending -- probably at 50mph -- while riding a flexible bike with very poor high speed handling. Amazing that he could achieve 50 mph on 7.2% slope with so many turns one of the guys complained his hands were hurting from all the braking.. And in the small ring! *Must be the air in France 8-). -- Joe Riel OK, so make it 35 mph. That's at the low end of what is reached VERY quickly here in Colorado on similar (even less steep) grades. I still don't do it with just one hand on the bars. And I can't recall ever trying to brake with just one hand on the bars. The highest hill around Besancon has an elevation of 500m---so thinner aird isn't an issue. *I find it hard to believe you've never sat up on a descent to look back or adjust something, or even get a drink. *I have no trouble descending the 7% hill around here with forearms resting on the tops of the bars, but I wouldn't do it if there are significant turns to deal with. *Shifting into the big ring, on a descent, with downtube shifters isn't hard to do, but you have had to at least practiced it to be comfortable, something these guys hadn't. Consequently there reaction---or one guy's reaction---is reasonable but a trifle exaggerated. *I only ever used my right had to shift with, and with the front brake on the left, could still initiate braking if needed. -- Joe Riel Getting 50mph is doable around here on the mundane descents in to downtown. No need to go to France. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5pCmUY8SV8 I can get 50mph on the hill at the end of my street --- although that's a pretty straight shot, and I really have to tuck. This one is harder to get over 50mph. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqllO_J9_wA Hey Frank, look, I found a video of the descent into Crown Point/Vista House and then down the back side toward the Falls. Imagine it in reverse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVFcMPI94ls -- Jay Beattie. |
#189
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On Jul 29, 9:53*am, Frank Krygowski let the
attack dog within him loose, and wrote: So are you saying you have ceramic bearings on every bike you own? Have you taken the time to drill lots of holes in your chainrings? Did you ream out the inside of your seatpost yet? *If not, is there some good reason your behavior doesn't match your arguments here? *Be specific. How about "taping your ears", Frank. That's one of your favorite insults. Part of what I'm arguing against here is the weird notion that anything _supposedly_ better for racers must never be questioned for anyone else. *People claim STI shifts easier, so even a tourist shouldn't use bar-ends. *Or, SPD is more secure, so riding with toe clips is foolish. *Or, carbon fiber is lighter and stiffer, so riding old steel is quirky and ignorant. There we go, those last few words are telling. "Quirky and ignorant". Are we trying on shoes here-- IOW finding ones that fit and pinch at the same time? There's no question whatsoever that "STI" shifts "easier" and is "better for racers", excepting TT bikes for obvious reasons of functionality. SPD pedals are "more secure" compared to clips/straps/cleats, but most of all, not having a strap crushing your foot if it is tightened up securely enough to hold the cleat in the pedal so your foot doesn't pull out at a bad time (which, due to the nature of pedaling a bicycle, tends to be the normal fail mode, "at a bad time"). I have foot problems due to injury that were no doubt whatsoever exacerbated by years of using clips and straps. If I still "had" to use straps, I wouldn't be riding, and that goes back 20 years to when I had a foot operated on for "Larry Bird Toe" (not exact but "close enough" according to the surgeon). If you wanted to go back and get testimony from "racers" about foot damage from straps, you could do so, Frank. There were comments to that effect when the change away from straps to "SPD" (actually, Look first IMS, at least among roadies that I knew). Don't try to tell me I don't know how to tighten a toe strap properly, either. But another part of what I'm arguing is the strange idea that in racing, nothing is negligible. We have people here claiming that _any_ reduction in weight _always_ helps - even in a flat time trial. We've had at least one guy once talk about the aero advantages of proper finger position in a TT! And we've had people say that if it helps even a little in a TT, it can't be negligible even drafting in the middle of a huge peloton. Yet nobody here has told of implementing several of these minuscule improvements and demonstrating significant benefit, let alone a race win. *And even the "nothing is negligible" crowd no longer bothers to drill a hundred holes in their chainrings.http://www.43bikes.com/fortythree/ww/drilling-do1.jpg So how did _that_ become negligible? People figured out that, along with tinfoil rims, lightness wasn't everything if your bike didn't make it across the finish line. I never saw much breakage due to drilling but I sure-enough saw tinfoil rim failure, one such at a big, annual race back in about 1980 or before that I know changed some minds about tinfoil rims. --D-y |
#190
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Why the pros are slowing down.
On 28/07/12 14:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jul 27, 9:56 pm, wrote: Here's an article you will likely enjoy. Lashings of engineering judgment without measurement. http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog...nel-testing-ma... Or more accurately, lashing deceptive promises of performance gains. Specifically, lashing companies that design and build the product, _then_ put the finished product in a wind tunnel for a few minutes and say "it's wind tunnel tested." Yet you know that phrase will sell wheels to guys who think "They wouldn't lie, and every gram counts." You (not surprisingly) missed the point. The writer was saying he thought manufacturer sponsored wind tunnel tests were not worth a cracker. Only independent tests has some validity, such as the RA test. The author then went on to use engineering judgment to conclude that their wheels were on par with some other wheels - as tested by RA - based on geometry and build similarities. -- JS. |
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