Why the pros are slowing down.

On 7/29/2012 11:29 AM, wrote:
I'm curious how you arrive at the conclusion that "most people don't change gears often enough." I'm probably one of those people, but it certainly doesn't present itself as a problem. Tell me, what am I missing or what havoc am i wreaking?

Just from reading and personal observation.
In my club we do a few weeks training every year for new riders and I
see that most of them either go right to the heavy gear and wear
themselves out or go to too low a gear thinking that it's helping them
fight the wind and the wind wins anyway.

I had a guy in one of my groups this season who would stay in the top
gear. He would do ok on the flats at first but would slow way down on
any grade. As a group leader, I had to try to keep them together so I
was paying attention. 3/4 of the way through the ride I had to let the
group go and give the guy a wheel for the ride home. I tried to get him
to use his gears and he flat wouldn't.

I think it's probably easier to let your equipment work for you but if
you aren't affecting anyone else then do what you like.



On Sunday, July 29, 2012 5:49:17 AM UTC-5, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 7/29/2012 2:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 29-7-2012 6:34, Frank Krygowski schreef:
But she's so brave! Taking her hands all the way off the bars to
shift gears! ;-)
It wouldn't be noteworthy, except for the comments we've seen that non-
STI shifting is dangerous. Yet here's this lady (collecting a
retirement pension) who seems to not only use them without fear, she
prefers them. How has she survived??
By changing gear only when it is safe. What I noticed is that one
effect of brifters was that people change gears much more often.


Frank's "retired little old ladies aren't afraid of it" schtick

notwithstanding, most people don't change gears often enough. Having

the shifters handy makes it easier. Not having to move your hands in a

twisty descent is a plus in my opinion but it's also nice when riding in

a tight group.



Or are we now to understand that brifters are for cowards only? I've

never heard anyone that actually used brifters say that they prefer

anything else.

On Jul 29, 1:57*pm, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 7/29/2012 9:29 AM, John B. wrote:









On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:49:17 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 7/29/2012 2:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 29-7-2012 6:34, Frank Krygowski schreef:

But she's so brave! *Taking her hands all the way off the bars to
shift gears! *;-)

It wouldn't be noteworthy, except for the comments we've seen that non-
STI shifting is dangerous. *Yet here's this lady (collecting a
retirement pension) who seems to not only use them without fear, she
prefers them. *How has she survived??

By changing gear only when it is safe. What I noticed is that one
effect of brifters was that people change gears much more often.

Frank's "retired little old ladies aren't afraid of it" schtick
notwithstanding, most people don't change gears often enough. *Having
the shifters handy *makes it easier. *Not having to move your hands in a
twisty descent is a plus in my opinion but it's also nice when riding in
a tight group.

Or are we now to understand that brifters are for cowards only? *I've
never heard anyone that actually used brifters say that they prefer
anything else.
On the other hand I've had a number of cyclists ask me how do I shift
with my friction bar end shifters and when I say something like, "just
move the handle until you feel the bike shift" they scratch their
heads and can't seem to understand how it can be done :-)

I've used friction bar ends. *I have bar ends on one bike now but
they're indexed. *I prefer brifters. *I'm just saying that I haven't
heard anyone that tried brifters that didn't prefer them.

My aunt's friend's step son's scoutmaster's ex-wife's therapist tried
them once and didn't prefer them to her Sturmey Archer 3-speed.
I guess that proves you wrong.
DR

Neither I nor a majority of cyclists need to worry about "optimum efficiency". That I can easily stay in the same gear and not have to shift to accelerate, and that I can do so as rapidly as most cyclists who shift to the optimum gear should say something. What it says is that it disagrees with the assertion that "people don't shift enough" (according to Lou).


For the record I didn't say people don't shift enough. I only said that when brifters came along people were shifting more often so there was a need. I ride a singlespeed on my winter evening rides. Good training but not the best bike to set speed records.

Lou

On 7/29/2012 3:32 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Neither I nor a majority of cyclists need to worry about "optimum efficiency". That I can easily stay in the same gear and not have to shift to accelerate, and that I can do so as rapidly as most cyclists who shift to the optimum gear should say something. What it says is that it disagrees with the assertion that "people don't shift enough" (according to Lou).


For the record I didn't say people don't shift enough. I only said that when brifters came along people were shifting more often so there was a need. I ride a singlespeed on my winter evening rides. Good training but not the best bike to set speed records.

Lou


Me too; my fixie is utterly reliable and that's a feature
during the "elements eat bicycle equipment" season.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Jul 29, 3:40*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/29/2012 3:32 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:



Neither I nor a majority of cyclists need to worry about "optimum efficiency". *That I can easily stay in the same gear and not have to shift to accelerate, and that I can do so as rapidly as most cyclists who shift to the optimum gear should say something. *What it says is that it disagrees with the assertion that "people don't shift enough" (according to Lou).

For the record I didn't say people don't shift enough. I only said that when brifters came along people were shifting more often so there was a need. I ride a singlespeed on my winter evening rides. Good training but not the best bike to set speed records.

Lou

Me too; my fixie is utterly reliable and that's a feature
during the "elements eat bicycle equipment" season.

Back in the day, various old parts were saved, earmarked for the cold
months and final destruction. Especially chains and chainrings.

I don't know about "efficiency" but I don't have much problem telling
the difference between a happy gear and an un-happy gear, no matter
how fast or or what sort of terrain the bike is traveling. More =
better and this from someone who used to at least occasionally ride
fixed and single-speed on "duration rides" with the racer dudes.
--D-y

On 7/29/2012 4:10 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Jul 29, 1:57 pm, Duane wrote:
On 7/29/2012 9:29 AM, John B. wrote:









On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 06:49:17 -0400, Duane
wrote:
On 7/29/2012 2:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 29-7-2012 6:34, Frank Krygowski schreef:
But she's so brave! Taking her hands all the way off the bars to
shift gears! ;-)
It wouldn't be noteworthy, except for the comments we've seen that non-
STI shifting is dangerous. Yet here's this lady (collecting a
retirement pension) who seems to not only use them without fear, she
prefers them. How has she survived??
By changing gear only when it is safe. What I noticed is that one
effect of brifters was that people change gears much more often.
Frank's "retired little old ladies aren't afraid of it" schtick
notwithstanding, most people don't change gears often enough. Having
the shifters handy makes it easier. Not having to move your hands in a
twisty descent is a plus in my opinion but it's also nice when riding in
a tight group.
Or are we now to understand that brifters are for cowards only? I've
never heard anyone that actually used brifters say that they prefer
anything else.
On the other hand I've had a number of cyclists ask me how do I shift
with my friction bar end shifters and when I say something like, "just
move the handle until you feel the bike shift" they scratch their
heads and can't seem to understand how it can be done :-)
I've used friction bar ends. I have bar ends on one bike now but
they're indexed. I prefer brifters. I'm just saying that I haven't
heard anyone that tried brifters that didn't prefer them.
My aunt's friend's step son's scoutmaster's ex-wife's therapist tried
them once and didn't prefer them to her Sturmey Archer 3-speed.
I guess that proves you wrong.


Well now, I certainly can't say I've never heard of anyone saying that. g

On 7/28/2012 11:07 AM, wrote:
Flexy bikes were once favored by climbers*on the way up the hills*
and greatly feared, at least by some, and quite notably, by others.
Not to mention having to ride what you are supplied as a trade-team
professional rider.

I thought the pros got to ride whatever they want, with the sponsor(s)
labels covering the originals?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!

On Jul 29, 10:13*am, Joe Riel wrote:
DirtRoadie writes:
On Jul 29, 10:19*am, Joe Riel wrote:
Jay Beattie writes:
On Jul 28, 9:34*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jul 28, 4:25*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

I was worried that he might start talking about the next door neighbor
who is a MIT grad, rocket scientist and Nobel Prize winner who
couldn't figure out how to fix his STI levers with a WD40 flush. *I
guess super smart people don't have internet access.

Come on, Jay. *There are people who are quite intelligent and
competent in one field, but lack even basic knowledge in another. *The
colleagues I referred to wouldn't try to practice law, but they can do
things with electronics, microprocessors, solid modeling etc. that you
will never master. *The fact that they're lousy bike mechanics does
not make them dumb.

And the fact that
one person prefers friction shifting is like that one kid who likes
Lima beans.

But she's so brave! *Taking her hands all the way off the bars to
shift gears! *;-)

It wouldn't be noteworthy, except for the comments we've seen that non-
STI shifting is dangerous. *Yet here's this lady (collecting a
retirement pension) who seems to not only use them without fear, she
prefers them. *How has she survived??

I think what we have seen is a comment from a top amateur racer about
how it felt dangerous to take his hand off the bars while descending
-- probably at 50mph -- while riding a flexible bike with very poor
high speed handling.

Amazing that he could achieve 50 mph on 7.2% slope with so many turns
one of the guys complained his hands were hurting from all the braking..
And in the small ring! *Must be the air in France 8-).

--
Joe Riel

OK, so make it 35 mph. That's at the low end of what is reached VERY
quickly here in Colorado on similar (even less steep) grades.
I still don't do it with just one hand on the bars.
And I can't recall ever trying to brake with just one hand on the
bars.

The highest hill around Besancon has an elevation of 500m---so thinner
aird isn't an issue. *I find it hard to believe you've never sat up on a
descent to look back or adjust something, or even get a drink. *I have
no trouble descending the 7% hill around here with forearms resting on
the tops of the bars, but I wouldn't do it if there are significant
turns to deal with. *Shifting into the big ring, on a descent, with
downtube shifters isn't hard to do, but you have had to at least
practiced it to be comfortable, something these guys hadn't.
Consequently there reaction---or one guy's reaction---is reasonable but
a trifle exaggerated. *I only ever used my right had to shift with, and
with the front brake on the left, could still initiate braking if
needed.

--
Joe Riel

Getting 50mph is doable around here on the mundane descents in to
downtown. No need to go to France. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5pCmUY8SV8
I can get 50mph on the hill at the end of my street --- although
that's a pretty straight shot, and I really have to tuck.

This one is harder to get over 50mph. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqllO_J9_wA

Hey Frank, look, I found a video of the descent into Crown Point/Vista
House and then down the back side toward the Falls. Imagine it in
reverse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVFcMPI94ls

-- Jay Beattie.

On Jul 29, 9:53*am, Frank Krygowski let the
attack dog within him loose, and wrote:

So are you saying you have ceramic bearings on every bike you own?
Have you taken the time to drill lots of holes in your chainrings?
Did you ream out the inside of your seatpost yet? *If not, is there
some good reason your behavior doesn't match your arguments here? *Be
specific.

How about "taping your ears", Frank. That's one of your favorite
insults.

Part of what I'm arguing against here is the weird notion that
anything _supposedly_ better for racers must never be questioned for
anyone else. *People claim STI shifts easier, so even a tourist
shouldn't use bar-ends. *Or, SPD is more secure, so riding with toe
clips is foolish. *Or, carbon fiber is lighter and stiffer, so riding
old steel is quirky and ignorant.

There we go, those last few words are telling. "Quirky and ignorant".
Are we trying on shoes here-- IOW finding ones that fit and pinch at
the same time?

There's no question whatsoever that "STI" shifts "easier" and is
"better for racers", excepting TT bikes for obvious reasons of
functionality.
SPD pedals are "more secure" compared to clips/straps/cleats, but most
of all, not having a strap crushing your foot if it is tightened up
securely enough to hold the cleat in the pedal so your foot doesn't
pull out at a bad time (which, due to the nature of pedaling a
bicycle, tends to be the normal fail mode, "at a bad time").

I have foot problems due to injury that were no doubt whatsoever
exacerbated by years of using clips and straps. If I still "had" to
use straps, I wouldn't be riding, and that goes back 20 years to when
I had a foot operated on for "Larry Bird Toe" (not exact but "close
enough" according to the surgeon).

If you wanted to go back and get testimony from "racers" about foot
damage from straps, you could do so, Frank. There were comments to
that effect when the change away from straps to "SPD" (actually, Look
first IMS, at least among roadies that I knew).

Don't try to tell me I don't know how to tighten a toe strap properly,
either.

But another part of what I'm arguing is the strange idea that in
racing, nothing is negligible. We have people here claiming that _any_
reduction in weight _always_ helps - even in a flat time trial. We've
had at least one guy once talk about the aero advantages of proper
finger position in a TT! And we've had people say that if it helps
even a little in a TT, it can't be negligible even drafting in the
middle of a huge peloton.

Yet nobody here has told of implementing several of these minuscule
improvements and demonstrating significant benefit, let alone a race
win. *And even the "nothing is negligible" crowd no longer bothers to
drill a hundred holes in their chainrings.http://www.43bikes.com/fortythree/ww/drilling-do1.jpg
So how did _that_ become negligible?

People figured out that, along with tinfoil rims, lightness wasn't
everything if your bike didn't make it across the finish line.
I never saw much breakage due to drilling but I sure-enough saw
tinfoil rim failure, one such at a big, annual race back in about 1980
or before that I know changed some minds about tinfoil rims.
--D-y

On 28/07/12 14:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jul 27, 9:56 pm, wrote:
Here's an article you will likely enjoy. Lashings of engineering judgment without measurement.

http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog...nel-testing-ma...

Or more accurately, lashing deceptive promises of performance gains.
Specifically, lashing companies that design and build the product,
_then_ put the finished product in a wind tunnel for a few minutes and
say "it's wind tunnel tested."

Yet you know that phrase will sell wheels to guys who think "They
wouldn't lie, and every gram counts."

You (not surprisingly) missed the point.

The writer was saying he thought manufacturer sponsored wind tunnel
tests were not worth a cracker. Only independent tests has some
validity, such as the RA test.

The author then went on to use engineering judgment to conclude that
their wheels were on par with some other wheels - as tested by RA -
based on geometry and build similarities.

--
JS.