Why the pros are slowing down.

On 02/08/12 15:05, wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:04:01 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 13:22, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:00:25 +1000,
wrote:

On 02/08/12 05:57, Jay Beattie wrote:

On a SuperSix EVO, Madone 7.9, Felt F1, Ridley, Scott (hey, its Ridley
Scott!) etc. . . . . yes, you're a dork for putting a pie-plate
cassette and long arm derailleur on a 900 gram frame.

Actually, I don't look for people to call dorks or really even call
them dorks if I find them, I just think that.

Got to admit, I haven't noticed any [1], but if I do, I'm sure I'll
think "dork". Likewise the tourers with aero bars - they're dorks too.

Hmmm... Don't the RAAM guys use aero bars?
RAAM riders are tourers? No, it's a *Race* Across AMerica.
Aerobars are not dorky if used in a time trial race.


You guys may have to help me out here. So a guy who buys a super
light bike to get himself up the hills on club rides about 3% easier
is not dorky. But if he puts low gears and a matching derailler on
to get himself up those hills much, much easier, he becomes dorky?

Only if the cassette has a pie plate. You *might* get away with a 26 or
perhaps a 27, but certainly not a 28 or above. That's dorky. Ride a
MTB or touring bike.

style used in some pro race. But if he uses a different style,
that's dorky?

Something got lost in the translation.

No, wait, I forgot. If he uses the same two-chainring "compact"
style used by some pro racer, that's not dorky. But if he uses three
chainrings, that's dorky?

Only if it's on a 900g frame - geez, Frank, keep up. It's not *that*
difficult. A man of your intelligence should be on top of this already.

And a guy who puts an aero bar on to get through a 15 mile time trial
a few seconds faster is not dorky.

No, because he's racing.

But a guy who puts on an aero bar
to help get through a fierce 8 hour headwind is dorky?

If he's not racing, yes.

How about my friend, who (last I talked to him) was a full time
professional tour leader for a prominent American touring company?
He was doing that on a very unusual bike, last I rode with him:
suspended mountain bike frame, aero wheels, narrow tires, road bars
plus aero bars, very wide range gears. (He was former owner of a
bike shop, BTW, and one of the fastest riders in our area, as well as
amazingly skilled at observed trials.) Did his bike make him a dork
or not?

Certainly quite odd. Quite possibly dorky. Would need to see the setup.

And would it help or hurt if he put on purple shorts and a faux team
jersey? Fashion is so confusing!

You seem to be very interested in purple.

The only jersey I don't like to see on folks is a tour leaders jersey
(or similar) that they obviously didn't earn. I think it shows little
respect for the folks who earned theirs.

--
JS.

On Aug 1, 11:33*pm, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 08:22, Phil W Lee wrote:









Phil W *considered Wed, 01 Aug 2012
01:07:36 +0100 the perfect time to write:

*considered Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:28:31 -0700 (PDT) the
perfect time to write:

Oh one more thing. *I think this will focus the "discussion" a bit better.

Proposed: Wiggins would have still won the Tour with '80's function on a weight limit bike.

Agree or disagree?

(Personally I agree, but we will never prove it either way.)

I'm not sure.
Did you notice the chainrings he was using for the TTs?

I'll take a look at what he uses tomorrow.

Yes, oval rings.

But as he wasn't the only one using them his 42s victory (in only
44km) must simply be due to the fact that he is, at present, by far
the best in the world.
Nobody has ever won the TdF and Olympic Gold in the same year before -
even Miguel Indurain only did them in different years.

Almost 1s per km is one heck of a margin, and he could have got the
extra couple of seconds easily - he'd backed off so much by the finish
that he was barely breathing hard. *42s is enough even for a wheel
change if necessary, so why keep pushing?

I think there may be another title on the way for Bradley, but he'll
have to go back into the middle of London for that one, and instead of
Hampton Court, it'll be to a different royal palace.
I don't think lycra will be in the dress code, either.

Yep, Wiggins certainly has the mojo at the moment.

Cavendish was funny/embarrassing after the road race.

--
JS.

It'd be nice to see him go for the hour record, before his performance
dwindles.

On Jul 31, 10:35*am, davethedave wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 01:44:12 +0000, Ralph Barone wrote:
Too bad ShelbroCo is out of business. *I'm thinking clipless gloves;
they keep your hands securely attached to the bars. *Easier to enter
then straps and grips. *Once properly aligned they will hold your arms
in the optimal position for maximum power delivery. *Available with and
without float---the sprinters will prefer the latter.

Nah... We need the clipless helmet, to get rid of those silly chin
straps.

An outstanding idea! Velcro and sideburns. Think of the weight saving.
--
davethedave

Sideburns are definitely faster.

On 08/01/2012 05:41 PM, James wrote:
On 01/08/12 20:54, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 7/31/2012 6:01 PM, James wrote:
On 31/07/12 20:37, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 7/31/2012 3:18 AM, thirty-six wrote:

snip
With further experience, his relative appreciation changed.

The ability to learn by experience is something that is missing with
our
local prophet.

With SPDs I always engage the right foot (my first foot) with the
pedal
at the bottom. Don't recall when the left foot usually fully engages,
probably near the bottom of the downstroke.

That's a good example of ease of entry. It's what I miss on the road
bike. Once I'm used to the SPDs and switch back to the road bike with
the KEOs, I have to actually think when clipping in. This is why I was
asking about Speedplays.


Over the past 2 weeks I've been taking notice of clipping in to my
Keos. With the bike viewed from the right, I start with my left foot
clipped in, right on the ground. The left pedal is at 1-2 o'clock. The
lights change to green and I push down with my left foot and start
moving forward. Before the right cranks is even at 9 o'clock, the
right cleat is on the pedal and finding its position. By 12 o'clock
the right cleat is ready to clip in, and as soon as I start to push
down, I feel the engagement. Half of one full revolution of the cranks.


Sure that's what normally happens. But sometime, I think that I'm
clipping in and the pedal is upside down. I'm getting used to it now and
adjust but I've have to pedal through an intersection with one foot and
I've had my shoe slip over the pedal, especially when it's wet. This is
worse when I'm switching between bikes a lot.

For me the KEOs are way more comfortable when riding so I won't switch
back to SPDs but I am still thinking about Speedplays. They're pretty
expensive though and the KEOs do feel good after a long ride.

It sounds also that perhaps the bearings and/or seals on your Keos are a
little tighter than mine, given that you said yours don't always hang in
the same orientation.

That's possible. I keep them clean but haven't touched them otherwise
since installation.

On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 14:04:01 +1000, James
wrote:

On 02/08/12 13:22, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:00:25 +1000,
wrote:

On 02/08/12 05:57, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Aug 1, 9:39 am, Frank wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:

But do you call people with triples or long-arm derailleurs "dorks"?
That's the issue. Your statement above indicates you certainly lean
that way.

No, I said "giant pie-plate cassettes" and long arm derailleurs. I
don't have an issue with triples...

So do you call people with 32 tooth cogs and long arm derailleurs "dorks"?

On a SuperSix EVO, Madone 7.9, Felt F1, Ridley, Scott (hey, its Ridley
Scott!) etc. . . . . yes, you're a dork for putting a pie-plate
cassette and long arm derailleur on a 900 gram frame.

Actually, I don't look for people to call dorks or really even call
them dorks if I find them, I just think that.


Got to admit, I haven't noticed any [1], but if I do, I'm sure I'll
think "dork". Likewise the tourers with aero bars - they're dorks too.

Hmmm... Don't the RAAM guys use aero bars?

RAAM riders are tourers? No, it's a *Race* Across AMerica.

Aerobars are not dorky if used in a time trial race.

Ah... I see. Except I read that the participants themselves say the
reason is to support them on the bike in a less tiring manner. They
seem to be saying that while any streamlining is fine that the main
reason is to be comfortable on the bike.

Cheers,
John B.

On Aug 1, 8:20*pm, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 8/1/2012 9:17 PM, James wrote:









On 02/08/12 10:54, Dan O wrote:
On Aug 1, 9:07 am, Frank *wrote:
Dan O wrote:
On Jul 31, 7:45 pm, Frank
wrote:

Stick to one topic, please.

I am on one topic (isn't it obvious?): *Smarmy superciliousness.

And there it is. *I can't say "Ride what you like, even purple shorts"
because that's somehow abusive instead of humorous. Yet you get to spew
any insulting venom you like.

FWIW, I read each of those apt terrms, "smarmy" and "supercilious",
applied to you by other readers before I ever did.

It seems when Frank writes the things that cause others to get the
impression he's being those things you describe above, he's actually
trying to be funny.

Maybe they have a strange sense of humour on Frank's home world.

No we're just all overly sensitive. *On planet Frank, it's a form of
endearment to tell someone that they're cowards or less brave than a
doddering old woman or they are stupid enough tape they're ears back to
avoid drag or wear purple lycra or they're stupid enough to spend
thousands because of media hype. *I think these points have all be made
in one single thread. *We can talk about any of the other FK hijacked
threads. *Just google them.

Besides, most cyclists in the world are exactly like him. *Penny
loafers, toe clips and all. *Not sure which planet this is but it sounds
like a particularly unfun place to hang out.

Take a tip from Dan and ride bike.

I had never considered taping my ears back! That may be just the thing
I need to eek out that last bit of speed on my commute to work. I
almost got whipped by a shaved-leg guy on a carbon wonder bike this
morning. It was frightening -- I wasn't going to let gold slip out of
my hands! (cue tympani, dum dumda dum dum . . . trumpets . . .) I
also have a moving personal story, which should make me a shoe-in for
the all-around commute gold.

Hey, plenty of people ride in rubber soled shoes -- not so sure about
penny loafers, though. Check out the guy at 2:48 -- he's wearing a
tie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBC2I...e=results_main

It's great if you live on the east side and if all you do is ride to
work and home, but if you live on the west side and want to do some
riding on the way home or the way to work -- or if you ride fast
(which is what we were talking about -- performance riding), then
you're going to want some bicycle specific shoes, clothes, bike.

My optional commute route home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHpYN4QdHKU
I usually take the hill next to that one. It's easier. (note the
guys blows up at 3:40 and stops). The problem with stopping on this
road is that it is a MF trying to get back in your toe clips -- if you
have them. Not so bad with two-sided SPDs. And the Ronde route
through here is easier than my commute because I turn left at the top
and go up about another 1/3 mile of stair step climbing. And then a
climb at the top of that climb, then down then up again and then down
and up in to my neighborhood. Here is a still of the down.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leecommadennis/2740956250/ Not really
conducive to penny loafers.

-- Jay Beattie.

Op 2-8-2012 8:23, James schreef:
You guys may have to help me out here. So a guy who buys a super
light bike to get himself up the hills on club rides about 3% easier
is not dorky. But if he puts low gears and a matching derailler on
to get himself up those hills much, much easier, he becomes dorky?

Only if the cassette has a pie plate. You *might* get away with a 26 or
perhaps a 27, but certainly not a 28 or above. That's dorky. Ride a
MTB or touring bike.

I hope you are joking otherwise this sounds really stupid.

Only if it's on a 900g frame - geez, Frank, keep
up. It's not *that* difficult. A man of your intelligence should be on
top of this already.

Yeah instead of putting on a cassette with a largest cog larger than 28
ride a MTB or touring bike which adds 3-4 kg instead of 100 grams. That
is smart.
If some pro riders find a 34-32 gearing apropriate for some climbs what
is wrong/dorky for us mortals to do the same even if the grade is less
brutal.


http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/15489/4/cobo-doet-greep-naar-de-macht-op-angliru.html

Watch the movie and see how many pro riders stall.

Lou

On Jul 31, 2:52*pm, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

I quote Lorri Spitz, my assembly manager c.1980, a time in which Superbe
kits were half the price of a Campagnolo bike build, much better
shifting, lighter and very hard to sell,

"Campagnolo doesn't shift, but it doesn't shift forever."

Bike builders loved Superbe but customers greatly preferred Super Record.

Yep. *But some say we should never mention the "I gotta use what the
racers use" phenomenon.

p..s The underdesigned spring was on Cyclone II.

It happened to me with a cheaper model SunTour, too. *Can't recall
which, though - I've used several.

Well, I didn't ever cobble a repair on a Suntour rear derailleur, you
have me there!

So, "bring a pair of slip-joint pliers" in your cross-country touring
baggage?

Did your spring break a second time? (probably not because you weren't
as rough on the parent material as was the factory)

You could get a new Suntour derailleur, but not a new spring. Would
two Suntour derailleurs about equal the cost of a Campy derailleur?

You could buy all kinds of replacement parts for Campy back in the
day, whatever the situation might be today.
The parts were expensive but they were available, and some shops
stocked fairly deep, too.

Well, I joined the racer scene in the late 70's and "what the racers
use" was definitely Suntour, in some places at least. Like in
Colorado, where the rear derailleurs were popular for shifting much
better and holding a low gear (big cog) much better than Campagnolo. I
rode the stuff and there was no question which brand functioned
better. When it was new and clean, at least. One quote from Bicycling
went to the effect that at the end of a long dirty ride (actually I
think it was "race"), the Suntour regained parity with Campagnolo-
level shifting performance.

Whatever. I used Campy because it worked for me, with reservations of
course. I used other brands of hubs, brakes, pedals and derailleurs
and the big deal about Campy, which the "haters" could never get
around, was that it worked and didn't tend to break.

Lessee: Mafac brakes that didn't work very well unless adjusted. Good
luck with that! g.
Lyotard pedals that sucked up water and grit into the bearings like a
Shop Vac.
Superbe brakes that looked good and were obviously well made but had a
PITA cable attachment (there are other examples of such, away from
Campagnolo).
Stronglight bottom brackets that broke ball bearings and shelled
whichever cup the shrapnel occurred in.
Destructo Delrin derailleurs, by Simplex.

Campagnolo's sins were much rarer. The early "thin-band" front
derailleur clamps stand out (broke sometime around the same time they
were tightened enough to hold position). It took awhile but I got a
new one under warranty.

Later, when they tried to play catch-up, Campy had funny brakes that I
didn't use and a C Record rear derailleur that broke a "mounting
plate".
But what do you know? My FLBS had a spare (at least two of them on
hand IMS) where the material was improved and the part wasn't even
expensive.

They put a rod in a modern derailleur, too. Grasping & flailing, no
doubt about it. I just used my old stuff.

I did break a crank spider arm once, at/near the crank axle end. Tired
old aluminum is tired old aluminum, no matter who "made" it.

"Pay your money"...
--D-y

On Thursday, August 2, 2012 2:23:33 AM UTC-4, James wrote:
On 02/08/12 15:05, wrote:


style used in some pro race. But if he uses a different style,
that's dorky?

Something got lost in the translation.

Yeah, the new Google Groups doesn't get along well with one of my computers. I get "unresponsive script" messages all the time, then it suddenly comes to life again. It's sometimes hard to tell what worked and what didn't.

- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:29:59 PM UTC-4, Jay Beattie wrote:
Hey, plenty of people ride in rubber soled shoes -- not so sure about
penny loafers, though. Check out the guy at 2:48 -- he's wearing a
tie!

I don't believe I ever owned a pair of penny loafers. You're riffing off of DR's nonsense.

But you've never commuted wearing a tie? Heck, I was the guy who pioneered the "no tie" look at one job, yet I've still ridden in one many times, when needed.

It really is easy to ride a bike in civilian clothes.

- Frank Krygowski