Shrewd maketing by Shimano -- too bad for cyclists.

I hung up my bike in 1970 after having been a cyclist for over 30 years.
Recently, I pulled some off their hangers, dusted them off and climbed
aboard. It's as much fun as it ever was.

I needed a few things, like gloves and a frame pump. The tires and tubes
were still in good shape, as were moving parts such as bottom brackets
and hubs -- I used VersiLube G322L in those days and it seems to have
lasted. So I went to the local bike shop, and was amazed at the changes,
but then I looked more closely, and did a bit of reading. Wow!

Shimano seems to have conned the world. Of course the new shifting
mechanisms are nice and more precise than those that I have on my bikes,
but the improvement is not earth shattering. What shocked me, however,
was the fact that, to add these to one of my bikes, in addition to the
crankset and freewheel, I would have to replace the bottom bracket,
rebuild the rear wheel, and probably replace the deraillers. Moreover,
nothing was compatible. I can't really fault manufacturer's for doing
things differently from their competitors, but apparently there is no
backward compatibility within a manufacturer's product line. An upgrade
seems as costly and time consuming as a new build. What a marketer's
dream. Make a cosmetic change, and sell a new group. I see that this is
what Shimano is doing in December -- does anyone care?

I note that one of the things we, in 1970, thought would soon be
replaced is still with us -- loose balls in a cup and cone.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

In article ,
Bob Wheeler wrote:
nothing was compatible. I can't really fault manufacturer's for doing
things differently from their competitors, but apparently there is no
backward compatibility within a manufacturer's product line. An upgrade

And in other news, it's proving difficult to squeeze 8" floppy disks
into my new Mac.

ian

"Ian G Batten" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Wheeler wrote:
nothing was compatible. I can't really fault manufacturer's for doing
things differently from their competitors, but apparently there is no
backward compatibility within a manufacturer's product line. An upgrade

And in other news, it's proving difficult to squeeze 8" floppy disks
into my new Mac.

That's funny. But seriously, if the OP got an older bike, why not keep it as
a period piece and just ride it?! Consumables like tubes, tires, chains and
freewheel are still available.

If you want the latest stuff from Shimano or Campy, buy a new bike that
comes with the stuff. Alternatively, get a new frame and built it up with
newer components.

If you haven't ridden since the "70s", try riding a new bike, you may
actually like it.....

Bob Wheeler wrote:
I hung up my bike in 1970 after having been a cyclist for over 30
years. Recently, I pulled some off their hangers, dusted them off and
climbed aboard. It's as much fun as it ever was.

I needed a few things, like gloves and a frame pump. The tires and
tubes were still in good shape, as were moving parts such as bottom
brackets and hubs -- I used VersiLube G322L in those days and it
seems to have lasted. So I went to the local bike shop, and was
amazed at the changes, but then I looked more closely, and did a bit
of reading. Wow!

Shimano seems to have conned the world. Of course the new shifting
mechanisms are nice and more precise than those that I have on my
bikes, but the improvement is not earth shattering. What shocked me,
however, was the fact that, to add these to one of my bikes, in
addition to the crankset and freewheel, I would have to replace the
bottom bracket, rebuild the rear wheel, and probably replace the
deraillers. Moreover, nothing was compatible. I can't really fault
manufacturer's for doing things differently from their competitors,
but apparently there is no backward compatibility within a
manufacturer's product line. An upgrade seems as costly and time
consuming as a new build. What a marketer's dream. Make a cosmetic
change, and sell a new group. I see that this is what Shimano is
doing in December -- does anyone care?

So you think that equipment changing/evolving/improving over *35-plus years*
is tantamount to "conning"?

Bill "so where do I stick my 8-track tapes in this new-fangled digital sound
system?" S.

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:54:13 -0400, Bob Wheeler
wrote:

I hung up my bike in 1970 after having been a cyclist for over 30 years.
Recently, I pulled some off their hangers, dusted them off and climbed
aboard. It's as much fun as it ever was.

-- does anyone care?


You might like this company-

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/about.html

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:17:24 GMT, bfd wrote:


"Ian G Batten" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Wheeler wrote:
nothing was compatible. I can't really fault manufacturer's for doing
things differently from their competitors, but apparently there is no
backward compatibility within a manufacturer's product line. An
upgrade

And in other news, it's proving difficult to squeeze 8" floppy disks
into my new Mac.

That's funny. But seriously, if the OP got an older bike, why not keep
it as
a period piece and just ride it?! Consumables like tubes, tires, chains
and
freewheel are still available.

If you want the latest stuff from Shimano or Campy, buy a new bike that
comes with the stuff. Alternatively, get a new frame and built it up
with
newer components.

If you haven't ridden since the "70s", try riding a new bike, you may
actually like it.....



Actually, it doesn't take long, and it is a scam. I had my mountain bike
for about 5 years and was unable to upgrade it. I ended up just buying a
new bike, as this was cheaper than trying to do any upgrades (i.e.,
replacements) to the old bike. Nonetheless, I like the shifting better
now. The brakes? Don't seem too much different to me. In fact, other
than shifting, nothing seems different other than new bikes are getting
obscenely expensive.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

That should have been 1980, not 1970 -- I'm not quite that old.

I don't think the comparison with 8-track is fair. I have tried the new
stuff. It's better in some ways, but not in all. I have a Paramount that
weighs 21 lb.. I doubt that changing a few components will shave much
off that. I have a touring bike with a low gear of 23 inches, and a nice
set of even shifts up to a top gear of 92 inches.

The shifting on the new stuff is crisp, but as I said not earth
shattering. It hardly justifies a complete remake. I have no idea about
the amount of tinkering that is required to keep these things running.
It would be nice if they were maintenance free, but I suspect not.

Shimano has originated a shrewd way to move product. More power to them.



S o r n i wrote:
Bob Wheeler wrote:

I hung up my bike in 1970 after having been a cyclist for over 30
years. Recently, I pulled some off their hangers, dusted them off and
climbed aboard. It's as much fun as it ever was.

I needed a few things, like gloves and a frame pump. The tires and
tubes were still in good shape, as were moving parts such as bottom
brackets and hubs -- I used VersiLube G322L in those days and it
seems to have lasted. So I went to the local bike shop, and was
amazed at the changes, but then I looked more closely, and did a bit
of reading. Wow!

Shimano seems to have conned the world. Of course the new shifting
mechanisms are nice and more precise than those that I have on my
bikes, but the improvement is not earth shattering. What shocked me,
however, was the fact that, to add these to one of my bikes, in
addition to the crankset and freewheel, I would have to replace the
bottom bracket, rebuild the rear wheel, and probably replace the
deraillers. Moreover, nothing was compatible. I can't really fault
manufacturer's for doing things differently from their competitors,
but apparently there is no backward compatibility within a
manufacturer's product line. An upgrade seems as costly and time
consuming as a new build. What a marketer's dream. Make a cosmetic
change, and sell a new group. I see that this is what Shimano is
doing in December -- does anyone care?


So you think that equipment changing/evolving/improving over *35-plus years*
is tantamount to "conning"?

Bill "so where do I stick my 8-track tapes in this new-fangled digital sound
system?" S.




--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

Bob Wheeler wrote:

I have a Paramount that
weighs 21 lb.. I doubt that changing a few components will shave much
off that.

You have a vintage Paramount that's been hanging in a garage for 25
years? Don't touch a thing on it! You have a highly prized classic.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

I note that one of the things we, in 1970, thought would soon be
replaced is still with us -- loose balls in a cup and cone.

you have to go outside of shimano and campy to get them. but my hubs are sealed
cartridge bearings and my headset too.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:14:31 -0400, Bob Wheeler
wrote:

It would be nice if they were maintenance free, but I suspect not.

Shimano has originated a shrewd way to move product. More power to them.

Not based on what you've said. They made it difficult to upgrade and
presumably most of the stuff on a Paramount from the 70s still works.
So they've discouraged a sale until you buy a new bike - which is
irrelevant to the issue of compatibility.

At one time I owned bikes that ran from a 1975 Italvega with all Campi
to a Lotus Supreme to my wife's Terry and Viner to my son's Team
Schwinn to a couple ofSantana tandems. Oh, yeah, and a freewheel
BMX-style bike. The only issue of compatibility that came up in doing
the maintenance and support on these bikes were pedals. And that's
because its expensive to buy a separate pair of shoes for each bike.

In all the ten or so years that I supported the bikes for three grown
bike riders, not once did compatibility cause me any issues in
maintaining and repairing the bikes. The total special tools to
maintain this variety came down to tools to easily remove freewheels
and cogs, the Campi seatbolt tool and IIRC, a rather large pedal tool
for the special platform pedal on the Lotus Supreme (could be
remembering that wrong, though).

I've been hearing this 'scam' argument for at least 25 years. The
argument works better for new bike retailers than for Shimano. Shimano
probably has a bigger mark-up on retail gruppos than on the ones they
sell to the bike manufacturers.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...