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Who is liable for the damage?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 24th 09, 08:09 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
NM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,854
Default Who is liable for the damage?

My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of Doug's
road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car went to enter a
side road, She was entering from the main road by turning right, after
allowed the crossing pedestrians right of way she then pulled forward
to enter the street, at the last moment she spotted a cyclist, who had
right of way being on the main road but going in her opinion far too
fast for the amount of traffic and the general congestion of the
area.

She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was insignificant at
this moment there was still sufficient room for the cyclist to pass
along the main road in front of her however the cyclist made the
assumption she was going to continue across his path so anchored up
and lost control, he came to a stop just as he collided with the car.

The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those stupid
toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet on the floor, he
ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet of her car still wearing
the cycle with resultant damage to the car's panel and paintwork.

Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault and of
course, as is normal, he has no insurance.
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  #2  
Old October 24th 09, 08:23 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Paul - xxx[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,739
Default Who is liable for the damage?

NM wrote:

My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of Doug's
road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car went to enter a
side road, She was entering from the main road by turning right, after
allowed the crossing pedestrians right of way she then pulled forward
to enter the street, at the last moment she spotted a cyclist, who had
right of way being on the main road but going in her opinion far too
fast for the amount of traffic and the general congestion of the
area.


So she didn't see the cyclist until the last moment but could still
determine their speed? How does that work then?

I think you mean she saw him, misjudged his speed and so pulled out,
not realising how fast cycles can travel, causing the collision.

She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was insignificant at
this moment there was still sufficient room for the cyclist to pass
along the main road in front of her however the cyclist made the
assumption she was going to continue across his path so anchored up
and lost control, he came to a stop just as he collided with the car.

The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those stupid
toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet on the floor, he
ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet of her car still wearing
the cycle with resultant damage to the car's panel and paintwork.

Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault and of
course, as is normal, he has no insurance.


I'd say tough **** for her, she should have better awareness and not
pull out into traffic. Whatever happens afterwards, it's her that
pulled out wrongly, you can't expect others to compensate for her
****wittery.



--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp
  #3  
Old October 24th 09, 08:29 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Dr Zoidberg[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Who is liable for the damage?

"NM" wrote in message
...
My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of Doug's
road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car went to enter a
side road, She was entering from the main road by turning right, after
allowed the crossing pedestrians right of way she then pulled forward
to enter the street, at the last moment she spotted a cyclist, who had
right of way being on the main road but going in her opinion far too
fast for the amount of traffic and the general congestion of the
area.

She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was insignificant at
this moment there was still sufficient room for the cyclist to pass
along the main road in front of her however the cyclist made the
assumption she was going to continue across his path so anchored up
and lost control, he came to a stop just as he collided with the car.

The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those stupid
toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet on the floor, he
ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet of her car still wearing
the cycle with resultant damage to the car's panel and paintwork.

Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault and of
course, as is normal, he has no insurance.



It does sound like they are both at fault as she did pull out into his path
when she didn't have right of way , but he also partly contributed by not
taking the correct action afterwards.
As far as any claim goes , she (or her insurance) will end up paying out.

--
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

  #4  
Old October 24th 09, 08:32 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
NM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,854
Default Who is liable for the damage?

On 24 Oct, 08:23, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of Doug's
road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car went to enter a
side road, She was entering from the main road by turning right, after
allowed the crossing pedestrians right of way she then pulled forward
to enter the street, at the last moment she spotted a cyclist, who had
right of way being on the main road but going in her opinion far too
fast for the amount of traffic and the general congestion of the
area.


So she didn't see the cyclist until the last moment but could still
determine their speed? *How does that work then?

I think you mean she saw him, misjudged his speed and so pulled out,
not realising how fast cycles can travel, causing the collision.

She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was insignificant at
this moment there was still sufficient room for the cyclist to pass
along the main road in front of her however the cyclist made the
assumption she was going to continue across his path so anchored up
and lost control, he came to a stop just as he collided with the car.


The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those stupid
toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet on the floor, he
ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet of her car still wearing
the cycle with resultant damage to the car's panel and paintwork.


Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault and of
course, as is normal, he has no insurance.


I'd say tough **** for her, she should have better awareness and not
pull out into traffic. *Whatever happens afterwards, it's her that
pulled out wrongly, you can't expect others to compensate for her
****wittery.

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Perhaps the ****wittery was the wearing of tight toe clips and going
silly fast in a heavily congested town centre, IMO one should expect
traffic in such circumstances and not fondly imagine one is competing
in a leg of the Tour de France. Besides she did not pull in front of
him, he just thought she was going to and reacted accordingly.
  #5  
Old October 24th 09, 08:34 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Paul - xxx[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,739
Default Who is liable for the damage?

NM wrote:

On 24 Oct, 08:23, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of Doug's
road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car went to enter a
side road, She was entering from the main road by turning right,
after allowed the crossing pedestrians right of way she then
pulled forward to enter the street, at the last moment she
spotted a cyclist, who had right of way being on the main road
but going in her opinion far too fast for the amount of traffic
and the general congestion of the area.


So she didn't see the cyclist until the last moment but could still
determine their speed? *How does that work then?

I think you mean she saw him, misjudged his speed and so pulled out,
not realising how fast cycles can travel, causing the collision.

She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was insignificant
at this moment there was still sufficient room for the cyclist to
pass along the main road in front of her however the cyclist made
the assumption she was going to continue across his path so
anchored up and lost control, he came to a stop just as he
collided with the car.


The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those
stupid toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet on
the floor, he ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet of her
car still wearing the cycle with resultant damage to the car's
panel and paintwork.


Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault
and of course, as is normal, he has no insurance.


I'd say tough **** for her, she should have better awareness and not
pull out into traffic. *Whatever happens afterwards, it's her that
pulled out wrongly, you can't expect others to compensate for her
****wittery.

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Perhaps the ****wittery was the wearing of tight toe clips and going
silly fast in a heavily congested town centre, IMO one should expect
traffic in such circumstances and not fondly imagine one is competing
in a leg of the Tour de France. Besides she did not pull in front of
him, he just thought she was going to and reacted accordingly.


If she didn't pull in front of him, how did he land on the bonet? Did
he defy physics and shoot off to the side, perhaps?

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp
  #6  
Old October 24th 09, 08:36 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
NM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,854
Default Who is liable for the damage?

On 24 Oct, 08:34, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
On 24 Oct, 08:23, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of Doug's
road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car went to enter a
side road, She was entering from the main road by turning right,
after allowed the crossing pedestrians right of way she then
pulled forward to enter the street, at the last moment she
spotted a cyclist, who had right of way being on the main road
but going in her opinion far too fast for the amount of traffic
and the general congestion of the area.


So she didn't see the cyclist until the last moment but could still
determine their speed? *How does that work then?


I think you mean she saw him, misjudged his speed and so pulled out,
not realising how fast cycles can travel, causing the collision.


She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was insignificant
at this moment there was still sufficient room for the cyclist to
pass along the main road in front of her however the cyclist made
the assumption she was going to continue across his path so
anchored up and lost control, he came to a stop just as he
collided with the car.


The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those
stupid toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet on
the floor, he ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet of her
car still wearing the cycle with resultant damage to the car's
panel and paintwork.


Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault
and of course, as is normal, he has no insurance.


I'd say tough **** for her, she should have better awareness and not
pull out into traffic. *Whatever happens afterwards, it's her that
pulled out wrongly, you can't expect others to compensate for her
****wittery.


--
Paul - xxx


'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Perhaps the ****wittery was the wearing of tight toe clips and going
silly fast in a heavily congested town centre, IMO one should expect
traffic in such circumstances and not fondly imagine one is competing
in a leg of the Tour de France. Besides she did not pull in front of
him, he just thought she was going to and reacted accordingly.


If she didn't pull in front of him, how did he land on the bonet? *Did
he defy physics and shoot off to the side, perhaps?

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Read it again, he lost control, had he been in control and riding in a
sensible fashion he could have passed uneventfully along the main
road.
  #7  
Old October 24th 09, 08:39 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Paul - xxx[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,739
Default Who is liable for the damage?

NM wrote:

On 24 Oct, 08:34, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
On 24 Oct, 08:23, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of
Doug's road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car
went to enter a side road, She was entering from the main
road by turning right, after allowed the crossing pedestrians
right of way she then pulled forward to enter the street, at
the last moment she spotted a cyclist, who had right of way
being on the main road but going in her opinion far too fast
for the amount of traffic and the general congestion of the
area.


So she didn't see the cyclist until the last moment but could
still determine their speed? *How does that work then?


I think you mean she saw him, misjudged his speed and so pulled
out, not realising how fast cycles can travel, causing the
collision.


She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was
insignificant at this moment there was still sufficient room
for the cyclist to pass along the main road in front of her
however the cyclist made the assumption she was going to
continue across his path so anchored up and lost control, he
came to a stop just as he collided with the car.


The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those
stupid toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet
on the floor, he ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet
of her car still wearing the cycle with resultant damage to
the car's panel and paintwork.


Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault
and of course, as is normal, he has no insurance.


I'd say tough **** for her, she should have better awareness
and not pull out into traffic. *Whatever happens afterwards,
it's her that pulled out wrongly, you can't expect others to
compensate for her ****wittery.


--
Paul - xxx


'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Perhaps the ****wittery was the wearing of tight toe clips and
going silly fast in a heavily congested town centre, IMO one
should expect traffic in such circumstances and not fondly
imagine one is competing in a leg of the Tour de France. Besides
she did not pull in front of him, he just thought she was going
to and reacted accordingly.


If she didn't pull in front of him, how did he land on the bonet?
*Did he defy physics and shoot off to the side, perhaps?

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Read it again, he lost control, had he been in control and riding in a
sensible fashion he could have passed uneventfully along the main
road.


Hmmm .. when you 'anchor up and lose control' you go in a straight
line, so either he was already aiming for her, or she pulled out into
his line of travel. When your brakes are locked you don't fly off at a
tangent (unless you're going in circles maybe), you go in a straight
line, hence why I questioned her account of what happened.

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp
  #8  
Old October 24th 09, 08:48 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
NM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,854
Default Who is liable for the damage?

On 24 Oct, 08:39, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
On 24 Oct, 08:34, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
On 24 Oct, 08:23, "Paul - xxx" wrote:
NM wrote:
My friend, in Catford strangely enough almost at the end of
Doug's road, whilst driving her small shopping trolly car
went to enter a side road, She was entering from the main
road by turning right, after allowed the crossing pedestrians
right of way she then pulled forward to enter the street, at
the last moment she spotted a cyclist, who had right of way
being on the main road but going in her opinion far too fast
for the amount of traffic and the general congestion of the
area.


So she didn't see the cyclist until the last moment but could
still determine their speed? *How does that work then?


I think you mean she saw him, misjudged his speed and so pulled
out, not realising how fast cycles can travel, causing the
collision.


She stopped immediatly and as her forward speed was
insignificant at this moment there was still sufficient room
for the cyclist to pass along the main road in front of her
however the cyclist made the assumption she was going to
continue across his path so anchored up and lost control, he
came to a stop just as he collided with the car.


The problem was his feet were clamped to the bike with those
stupid toe grip racing thingys thus he couldn't put his feet
on the floor, he ended up uninjured sitting across the bonnet
of her car still wearing the cycle with resultant damage to
the car's panel and paintwork.


Why should he not pay for the damage? He argues it's her fault
and of course, as is normal, he has no insurance.


I'd say tough **** for her, she should have better awareness
and not pull out into traffic. *Whatever happens afterwards,
it's her that pulled out wrongly, you can't expect others to
compensate for her ****wittery.


--
Paul - xxx


'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Perhaps the ****wittery was the wearing of tight toe clips and
going silly fast in a heavily congested town centre, IMO one
should expect traffic in such circumstances and not fondly
imagine one is competing in a leg of the Tour de France. Besides
she did not pull in front of him, he just thought she was going
to and reacted accordingly.


If she didn't pull in front of him, how did he land on the bonet?
*Did he defy physics and shoot off to the side, perhaps?


--
Paul - xxx


'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Read it again, he lost control, had he been in control and riding in a
sensible fashion he could have passed uneventfully along the main
road.


Hmmm .. when you 'anchor up and lose control' you go in a straight
line, so either he was already aiming for her, or she pulled out into
his line of travel. *When your brakes are locked you don't fly off at a
tangent (unless you're going in circles maybe), you go in a straight
line, hence why I questioned her account of what happened.

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp


Valid assumption, providing the road is straight, gradient free, not
heavily cambered and clement conditions. His trajectory was a result
of his initial change of course to avoid what he obviously thought was
going to be a Tbone. Had he continued there would not have been an
issue, had he been cycling with a modicum of common sense there also
would not have been an issue.

Sadly it seems her NCB is at risk down to an uninsured ****.
  #9  
Old October 24th 09, 08:51 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Adrian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,630
Default Who is liable for the damage?

NM gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

His trajectory was a result of his initial change of course to avoid
what he obviously thought was going to be a Tbone.


You're really not helping to dispel the impression that she just didn't
****ing look, you know.

Had he continued there would not have been an issue


Sorry, I thought the problem was that he was coming too fast for her to
be able to see him in time?

Sadly it seems her NCB is at risk down to an uninsured ****.


No, her NCB is at risk due to her inability to look for oncoming vehicles
before turning right.
  #10  
Old October 24th 09, 08:53 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
Paul - xxx[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,739
Default Who is liable for the damage?

NM wrote:

Valid assumption, providing the road is straight, gradient free, not
heavily cambered and clement conditions. His trajectory was a result
of his initial change of course to avoid what he obviously thought was
going to be a Tbone. Had he continued there would not have been an
issue, had he been cycling with a modicum of common sense there also
would not have been an issue.


You never mentioned any change in course before, you said he simply
anchored up and lost control, now he changes direction .. which is
true? She still pulled out into traffic after misjudging the traffics
speed.

Sadly it seems her NCB is at risk down to an uninsured ****.


I guess we'll always differ .. her NCB is at risk because she misjudged
speed of traffic and pulled out, causing someone to panic .. still her
fault, however you view it.

--
Paul - xxx

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp
 




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