A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old August 12th 17, 03:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,439
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote:
On 8/11/2017 4:37 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands (Vaals) to
Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed bike on the bike path,
put it in 12th gear and hammer those 20 miles. I did the same distance
here (Cameron Park to Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing
in with fast traffic at times which some potentially interested cyclists
don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field for half a mile,
including crossing a muddy creek and lifting the bike over some low
fences. Hardly anyone would be willing to do the latter. On the way back
it was mostly along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly
fun.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Lifting a bike over low fences? Sounds a lot like trespassing onto
private land.

What is it with you that you have such difficulty riding where so
mqany others ride without fear? Oh I know, a fw others share your
fears and thus bicycvling is extremely dangerous.


In the area Joerg is referring to, the issue is that not many others
ride, because of fear of riding on US50, a legitimate fear.
.


Bicycles are not allowed on Hwy 50, that's the key problem. If you want
to go to Intel, Kaiser, Costco, Home Depot et cetera the only way is to
hack it across a field, he

https://goo.gl/maps/RZyYFr7MCTT2

There is now a gate and various habitat fences. I guess they are fixing
to put in developments and a road. Meaning the ride will be over soon.
The only alternative is White Rock Road which is close to suicidal for a
cyclist. Well, then I'll use the car until they are done, after which
hopefully that new road with have a bike lane because it's going to be a
race track.


I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in
transportational cycling.


Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a
cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll never
get expanded.

For cyclists we already have much better options than we did 5-10 years
ago. However, one must be able to handle a mountain bike.

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG

We can now ride all the way to Walmart, brewpubs and other places in
Placerville on mostly dirt roads and singletrack though some of it isn't
for the faint of heart. Works for me. I simply adjusted my spending of
money to businesses that can be reached that way. Heck, even one of my
clients and a software engineer I network with are located directly on
that trail.

The downside is that I am going through a lot of rear tires. Oh well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #12  
Old August 12th 17, 04:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,568
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
We can now ride all the way to Walmart, brewpubs and other places in
Placerville on mostly dirt roads and singletrack though some of it isn't
for the faint of heart. Works for me. I simply adjusted my spending of
money to businesses that can be reached that way. Heck, even one of my
clients and a software engineer I network with are located directly on
that trail.

The downside is that I am going through a lot of rear tires. Oh well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I can ride all the way from London Ontario Canada to Ottawa Ontario Canada and i can do it without going onto dirt roads or bicycle paths/trails if I want to. There are many, many places in Ontario Canada where i can ride a bicycle too without having to use bicycle paths or trails.

I find many bicycle lanes, paths and trails to be very hazardous to use due to their extremely poor design (poor sight lines for example; being in the door zone, or being on the right side of a right turning motor vehicle lane) or because they are MUP/MUT.

If I were to ride only in designated bicycle lanes or one segregated bicycle paths then I'd be doing very little bicycling because we don not have segregated bicycle paths here and for that I'm very thankful. I can hop on my bicycle and go to where I want to be (even if it''s a hundred plus miles away) by using, GASP!, paved roads shared with motor vehicles.

Maybe YOU need segregated bicycling facilities in order to ride your bicycle but thousands of us do not nor do we constantly push for such segregated facilities.

Cheers
  #13  
Old August 12th 17, 05:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,523
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:05:55 -0700, sms
wrote:

https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf

This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S. has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the highest death rate.


How many of the US deaths were due to getting hit by a drunk driver?
Of the bicycle fatalities which I'm somewhat familiar, two were from
drunk drivers and one was from a heart attack.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cyclist+killed+by+drunk+driver
"Investigators, however, have never provided a reasonable
explanation how (the cyclist), struck from behind, shares
responsibility for his own death..."

I'm also wondering if the statistics from other countries include or
exclude drunk drivers and heart attacks. Statistics without sources
are worthless.

Want to make the roads really safe for cyclists? Just execute drunk
drivers on the spot. Bicycle fatality statistics should drop rapidly.
However, I'm not sure it will affect the overall picture as some
cycling accident investigations seem to follow a "blame the victim"
mentality:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-bicyclists-drivers-crashes-statistics-2014nov22-story.html

Incidentally, I now have a built in traffic stress meter. Thanks to
one of the vasodilators (blood vessel expanders) that I'm taking, a
sudden increase in blood pressure, such as after a near miss type
incident, causes my face to "flush". It feels like I'm wearing a pin
cushion. It's quite handy to determine if I'm "stressed" while riding
or driving and need to take a break.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #14  
Old August 12th 17, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 976
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:55:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

lifting the bike over some low
fences


Exactly how low? I don't think I could lift my bike over a fence much
above knee high, and I can't think of a use for a fence that low --
confining turtles? A symbolic boundary marker?

Of course I *am* seventy-six, female, and have a damaged rotator cuff.
But there is also the problem of getting *me* over the fence without
damaging it. When I was eight, I could climb a fence at the corner
post, but at a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, fence-climbing is right
out, unless it is built like a ladder. I think I *have* seen a board
panel in a wire fence, but can't remember when and where.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
  #15  
Old August 12th 17, 07:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,439
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-12 07:24, wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 5:45:38 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf






This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest number of bicycle travel in terms of
distance, and the highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field
for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting
the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing
to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a
county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think buses
are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for some people
they are merely inconvenient but for most people buses are not
useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday with
a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a distant bike
trail. But when we first moved to town and had just one car, I
looked into riding a bus the seven or so miles to work. It would
have taken far longer than just biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434




"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence
to every destination is ridiculous.


And my point is that IF you have separate bicycle facilities like
that car drivers again believe you don't belong on their roads.


My experience is that some of them believe that anyhow regardlesss of
whether there is a bike path or not. Those are the ones deliberately
passing closely or speeding up to the cyclist and the lean on the horn.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #16  
Old August 12th 17, 07:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,936
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:45:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf




This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.


I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434


"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every
residence to every destination is ridiculous.


Absolutely.

- Frank Krygowski
  #17  
Old August 12th 17, 08:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,936
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:24:58 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 5:45:38 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf




This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434


"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every
residence to every destination is ridiculous.


And my point is that IF you have separate bicycle facilities like that car drivers again believe you don't belong on their roads.


Also true.

I forget how many states now have mandatory sidepath laws. Whatever the number,
it's too high.

- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old August 12th 17, 08:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,439
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-12 10:03, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:55:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

lifting the bike over some low
fences


Exactly how low? I don't think I could lift my bike over a fence much
above knee high, and I can't think of a use for a fence that low --
confining turtles? A symbolic boundary marker?


About 2ft, those orange habitat delimiters. There is construction
pending and they want to keep the bulldozers out of that. As usual,
hikers and cyclist are of zero importance to those folks. This is why it
is good that we have rules in most jurisdictions around here that bike
lanes or paths must be built when new developments go in. Folsom often
even requires class I. If they didn't then the builders would not spend
one red cent on that.


Of course I *am* seventy-six, female, and have a damaged rotator cuff.
But there is also the problem of getting *me* over the fence without
damaging it. When I was eight, I could climb a fence at the corner
post, but at a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, fence-climbing is right
out, unless it is built like a ladder. I think I *have* seen a board
panel in a wire fence, but can't remember when and where.


I am a tad heavier but I have no problem lifting a bike and myself over
a regular cattle fence. Sometimes that is needed when a gate is
recalcitrant (but without trespassing). Or when I have to climb over to
open a latch from the inside to get a runaway farm animal back in.

Chronic rotator cuff issues can prevent that but other than that it's
mostly a matter of training. Being female shouldn't make a difference.
My sister was always the better tree climber compared to us boys.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #19  
Old August 12th 17, 08:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,936
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 17:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf





This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434



"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to
every destination is ridiculous.


Those are not kiddie paths and they do almost go from residence to
destination in the Netherlands. The only way to experience this is to
actually stay there a few weeks and ride all the time.

When I worked in Hengelo we rented a house sight-unseen and split the
cost between four people. When I got there it turned out to have a bike
path right in front and the company also had a bike path system
connector straight into a massive bicycle parking lot. At one section we
had three lanes on the bike path while car drivers only had two. Having
grown up in Germany I was pleasantly surprised but the three others who
grew up in the Netherlands considered that to be normal.

You don't need it to every house. Folsom is an example how to do it
correctly. They have built a network of bike paths going through nearly
all residential and many commercial areas. Most destinations require a
few hundred yards of street riding but that is on low-traffic streets.
Except in some inner city areas but the very skittish could always hop
off and push the bike on a sidewalk for a few yards (I always ride in
the street).


Stevenage and Milton Keynes and other "new towns" in Britain are also
examples of how to do it correctly. One can bicycle from anywhere to anywhere
without interacting with cars. Except almost nobody bothers. It's easier
to drive.

- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old August 12th 17, 08:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,936
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote:


I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in
transportational cycling.


Indeed. I chose my residence carefully, so transporational cycling was possible.
Joerg should have done the same.

Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a
cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll never
get expanded.


So what have you done to establish a cycling culture there? All we've heard
about is whining that riding there is dangerous.

- Frank Krygowski
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bicycle Light Theft & Bicycle Parking Infrastructure sms Techniques 18 March 10th 17 11:51 PM
Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX Jay Beattie Techniques 20 May 26th 12 02:30 AM
Cycle Infrastructure Design Paul Luton[_2_] UK 15 November 2nd 08 06:29 PM
Sprocket design and analysis bicycle_disciple Techniques 3 October 2nd 06 04:57 PM
How2 design ergo handle and stress on the arm/elbow teachndad Unicycling 7 November 22nd 04 09:19 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.