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  #111  
Old September 6th 17, 07:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,367
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 16:18:30 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 6:59:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 5:44:07 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/4/2017 9:58 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 14:39:09 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 12:47:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 11:45:56 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 9:52:22 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 10:24:47 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
Well, you can pass the cost of wages along in price, assuming price elasticity. Smokers don't have a similar option for increasing revenues to cover the cost of cigarettes -- so the markets do operate differently. Paying a higher minimum wage also stimulates the economy because workers have more buying power. It's trickle-up instead of trickle-down. My son earned sh** in a bike shop and then took all his earnings and bought a bike from the shop. Good discount, but still a money maker for the shop.

-- Jay Beattie.

But how long before the price increases due to the mimimum wage increase negates the minimum wage increase? It seems to negate it pretty quickly here.

Depends on the market and the amount increase in minimum wage, and I'm not saying there should be an astronomical minimum wage. I'm just saying that the market effect of raising minimum wage is complex and not like the effect of spiking the price of cigarettes. It is not some form of economic punishment to curb unhealthy behavior.

Here's the way higher wages work: you don't bring in workers from all over the world. That means that production is limited by the number of workers who can then demand a higher wage.

The way it presently is these so-called minimum wage jobs are those that can and should be largely automated and will be if the minimum wages rise. This then leaves more workers than jobs and the person willing to accept the lowest wage wins out. My last paying position I was making a quarter of a million a year. The same position now is paying 125-175. Do you think they will pay an American 175 or an Indian 125?

Migrant workers may or may not depress wages. They're offering $15-16/hr to cut grapes in Sonoma, and they're not getting home-grown workers. Anglos refuse to do certain things, e.g. hard work.

A perfect market should fix all this, but look at the low unemployment and the lack of real wage growth. Something is not working, and I don't know what it is. In any normal market, wages would be rising, inflation would be rising, interest rates would be rising. Bonds would be going up; the market would be dipping a little as people moved into safer and now decent yield investments. None of that is happening.

-- Jay Beattie.

I suspect that one of the larger problems is the democratic political
system where a politician says "Vote for me" and the population says
"Why?"

Sometimes the population has had enough and resorts to
beating Dear Leader to death hanging from his heels.

https://rasica.files.wordpress.com/2...pg?w=538&h=373


This indeed happened. And who did it? The cowards that hid in the shadows for the entire war. They called themselves the Antifa for "Anti-Facists". While the Catholics spent the entire war smuggling Jews and other enemies of the Germans to safety, the Antifa did nothing but kill Mussolini after he had been disarmed and put safely in a jail and they wouldn't put themselves in danger by dragging a defenseless man out and murdering him instead of waiting for the trial.

We are seeing the same thing occurring in the USA - Is it the so-called "white nationalists" whom the media are painting as "the KKK or Neo-NAZIs" who are hiding in the shadows? No, it is the Antifa showing up for "protests" wearing hard hats and anti-tear gas goggles. Carrying weapons and with pillow cases pulled over their heads died black so they can claim that they really aren't the sons of the real KKK.

The Antifa ARE a terrorist organization and every one of them should be arrested and stand trial before a jury of their peers so that they can see what real people think of them.


The news reports of the conflict in people's park in berkely were hilarious. "The clash has been mostly peaceful so far; however, some bagels and a hard-boiled egg were thrown"


I wonder whether this will become a "new age" verb? "To Bagel", I
bagled him/her." Or would that be "baggeled"?

--
Cheers,

John B.

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  #112  
Old September 6th 17, 08:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,367
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 11:35:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/4/2017 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:

Somewhere I read something about "Why are we are advised to NOT judge
ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to
judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics."


I think demonizing muslims happens much more often than demonizing gun
owners.

Seems to me the gun control crowd mostly asks for background checks and
bans on guns designed to kill people (as opposed to guns designed for
hunting). I don't see much call for jailing or deporting gun owners.

Supposedly, a majority of NRA members want better background checks. I
doubt that those NRA members consider gun owners lunatics.


You need to get out among them. One guy, on another group, argued that
all the gun crime in N.G. is caused by lax gun laws in W. Virginia.
When I asked him whether the "Sullivan" law in New York which made it
extremely difficult to buy or own a pistol had any effect on the Mafia
wars he argued that those statistics didn't count.

Or read about any of the schools shootings.... "if he hadn't had the
gun he wouldn't have shot them". Mull that over for a moment.

By the way, the numbers of persons killed in shootings in schools in
2015 was 19. the number of Teen's killed in auto accidents in 2015 was
2,333 and 221,313 were injured sufficiently to require treatment in
emergency Clinics.

But I will say that the guy that got into the Swiss Insurance company
hasn't triggered any great hue and cry to "BAN CHAINSAWS!" :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #113  
Old September 6th 17, 09:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,367
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On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B wrote:

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the
manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became
obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead
tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?


Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have dozens
of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that.

Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel
these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends
up being destructive to the laborer.


Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?

I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I
subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as
early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified
machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were
machine operators.


My apprenticeship, as such, was as a glazier which was my father's
trade. I did that for 7 years during high school and college. But even
in more technical fields like medicine, nursing, etc., there is a period
of apprenticeship by another name.

I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing
employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs, and,
and, but I haven't seen much progress being made.


Well, he's made plenty of progress in being a douchebag.

Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which certainly
contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs? -- Cheers,


One of the many knots in capitalism. It's a system we're dedicated to
but doesn't really work that well- even though it works better than all
the alternatives tried thus far.


Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #114  
Old September 6th 17, 08:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,169
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On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:05:25 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?


Well, it's plain that you've never worked.

Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?


There is socialism as described by Marx and Lenin.
  #115  
Old September 7th 17, 01:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,367
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On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:00:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:05:25 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?


Well, it's plain that you've never worked.

Quite the contrary. I grew up on a small New England farm where most
of the work was done by hand. Ditches for water pipes were 6 feet deep
to get below the frost line, hay for the animals was cut with a mowing
machine and then tedded, loaded on wagons and mowed away by hand.

I did "chores" commensurate with my size from the time I was 6 or 7
years old. Shoot, everybody did. Didn't they?

Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?


There is socialism as described by Marx and Lenin.


Which doesn't work. China's current prosperity is largely due to a
disabling of the original state run economy and now incorporates a
modified capitalistic system.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #116  
Old September 7th 17, 06:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,681
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On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:20 +0700, John B wrote:
On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B
wrote:

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for
the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades
became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to
knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?


Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have
dozens of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that.

Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel
these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends
up being destructive to the laborer.


Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?


Seriously? Have you only had desk jobs? Hard labor jobs like digging
ditches, swinging a pick, repeated heavy lifting, etc., routinely cause
damage. Back problems, arthritis, etc. In my career I have seen
thousands of people disabled by the long term toll their careers took on
their bodies. The taxpayers, BTW, are paying for their nursing home
placements.

Back in my days of working in a produce warehouse as a lumper, every
Friday two of us would carry 36,000 pounds of bananas out of the semi
trailer in their boxes, stack 'em on pallets, pull them across the
warehouse into the storage rooms (bananas are kept relatively warm; if
chilled they won't ripen properly) with a manual pallet jack. Even
though I was 22 and strong as an ox in those days, I was damned sore
after that. Watermelons were worse, they weren't in boxes. Back in
those days I could toss a 100 lb bag of spuds on my shoulder and lump it
upstairs, with 50 bag of onions I could run upstairs. Now I probably
couldn't get the bag of spuds up off the floor.



I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I
subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as
early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified
machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were
machine operators.


My apprenticeship, as such, was as a glazier which was my father's
trade. I did that for 7 years during high school and college. But
even in more technical fields like medicine, nursing, etc., there is a
period of apprenticeship by another name.

I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing
employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs,
and, and, but I haven't seen much progress being made.


Well, he's made plenty of progress in being a douchebag.

Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which
certainly contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs?
-- Cheers,


One of the many knots in capitalism. It's a system we're dedicated to
but doesn't really work that well- even though it works better than
all the alternatives tried thus far.


Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?


Good question. Russia and China's attempts at communism didn't pan out.
But capitalism depends on inflation to provide the illusion of growth,
as well as a constantly growing population to provide an expanding
market. If the population stops growing, the economy collapses.
However, we've reached a point where further population growth is
rapidly becoming unsustainable. The massive increase in wealth
disparity over the past 50 years is also unsustainable- top heavy
structures do not stand long. Those who ignore the lessons of history
are doomed to repeat them. Buckle up for deja vu!
  #117  
Old September 7th 17, 08:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,367
Default Jobst

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:04:28 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:20 +0700, John B wrote:
On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B
wrote:

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for
the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades
became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to
knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?

Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have
dozens of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that.

Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel
these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends
up being destructive to the laborer.


Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?


Seriously? Have you only had desk jobs? Hard labor jobs like digging
ditches, swinging a pick, repeated heavy lifting, etc., routinely cause
damage. Back problems, arthritis, etc. In my career I have seen
thousands of people disabled by the long term toll their careers took on
their bodies. The taxpayers, BTW, are paying for their nursing home
placements.


No, as I wrote in another post, I was raised on a small farm in New
England where just about everything was done by hand. Run a water
line out to the barn" You need a six foot deep trench to get below the
frost line. My father used to pay someone to mow the field and the
rest of the haying was done by hand. You want a new barn? Well get a
hammer and saw and build it.

My paternal grandfather raised chickens, in 3,000 chicken lots. By
himself, no help. He also cut wood, by hand, for the month of
September, to heat his house during a New England winter.

My mother's father broke his leg at 70 years of age, fell off a loaded
hay wagon, pitching hay up into the mow.O.K. the family considered it
a "dam fool thing to do" but he did it.

My Paternal grandfather died at 87 and my maternal grandfather at 92.
No disability. No Charity.

Back in my days of working in a produce warehouse as a lumper, every
Friday two of us would carry 36,000 pounds of bananas out of the semi
trailer in their boxes, stack 'em on pallets, pull them across the
warehouse into the storage rooms (bananas are kept relatively warm; if
chilled they won't ripen properly) with a manual pallet jack. Even
though I was 22 and strong as an ox in those days, I was damned sore
after that. Watermelons were worse, they weren't in boxes. Back in
those days I could toss a 100 lb bag of spuds on my shoulder and lump it
upstairs, with 50 bag of onions I could run upstairs. Now I probably
couldn't get the bag of spuds up off the floor.



I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I
subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as
early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified
machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were
machine operators.

My apprenticeship, as such, was as a glazier which was my father's
trade. I did that for 7 years during high school and college. But
even in more technical fields like medicine, nursing, etc., there is a
period of apprenticeship by another name.

I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing
employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs,
and, and, but I haven't seen much progress being made.

Well, he's made plenty of progress in being a douchebag.

Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which
certainly contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs?
-- Cheers,

One of the many knots in capitalism. It's a system we're dedicated to
but doesn't really work that well- even though it works better than
all the alternatives tried thus far.


Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?


Good question. Russia and China's attempts at communism didn't pan out.
But capitalism depends on inflation to provide the illusion of growth,
as well as a constantly growing population to provide an expanding
market. If the population stops growing, the economy collapses.
However, we've reached a point where further population growth is
rapidly becoming unsustainable. The massive increase in wealth
disparity over the past 50 years is also unsustainable- top heavy
structures do not stand long. Those who ignore the lessons of history
are doomed to repeat them. Buckle up for deja vu!


It isn't only Capitalism that seems to have to grow. A good friend
grew up in Hungary under the communist system and while I never
questioned him specifically, he did mention improvements in the life
some enthusiasm. Bicycle to motorcycle was one example I remember.

As for wealth disparity, I can remember when a doctor made a house
call.... for $2.00 :-) To be honest I never paid a doctor $2.00 to
make a house call but I remember being sick and the doctor coming and
my folks talking about $2.00. Granted, I was just a kid but my salary
was eleven cents a week for milking the cow six evenings a week. And
slopping two hogs.

But in a more serious vein, what is "wealth disparity"? Is it that you
make more money then I do? I'm fairly sure that you do as you seem to
be still working and I'm retired. Should I be rushing around waving my
arms in the air shouting Unfair! Unfair!

The concept that a bloke who starts a business selling bootleg records
out of the trunk of his car, for example, is not entitled to
everything he can make, or the guy, not even a collage graduate, that
starts up a little two man business that grows because they can
provide a service, is not entitled to his earnings, seems wrong to me.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #118  
Old September 7th 17, 03:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,690
Default Jobst

On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 12:08:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 00:04:28 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:20 +0700, John B wrote:
On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B
wrote:

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for
the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades
became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to
knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?

Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have
dozens of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that.

Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel
these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends
up being destructive to the laborer.

Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?


Seriously? Have you only had desk jobs? Hard labor jobs like digging
ditches, swinging a pick, repeated heavy lifting, etc., routinely cause
damage. Back problems, arthritis, etc. In my career I have seen
thousands of people disabled by the long term toll their careers took on
their bodies. The taxpayers, BTW, are paying for their nursing home
placements.


No, as I wrote in another post, I was raised on a small farm in New
England where just about everything was done by hand. Run a water
line out to the barn" You need a six foot deep trench to get below the
frost line. My father used to pay someone to mow the field and the
rest of the haying was done by hand. You want a new barn? Well get a
hammer and saw and build it.


That's nothing. We never had a color TV! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

The paradox of physical labor: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681272/ Construction laborers have a higher obesity rate than librarians.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #119  
Old September 7th 17, 03:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,169
Default Jobst

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 5:47:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:00:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 1:05:25 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?


Well, it's plain that you've never worked.

Quite the contrary. I grew up on a small New England farm where most
of the work was done by hand. Ditches for water pipes were 6 feet deep
to get below the frost line, hay for the animals was cut with a mowing
machine and then tedded, loaded on wagons and mowed away by hand.

I did "chores" commensurate with my size from the time I was 6 or 7
years old. Shoot, everybody did. Didn't they?

Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?


There is socialism as described by Marx and Lenin.


Which doesn't work. China's current prosperity is largely due to a
disabling of the original state run economy and now incorporates a
modified capitalistic system.


John, enough of your bull****. I know what happens to people who swing picks 8 hours a day. The human body is not designed for that sort of thing and you end up like my brother with a degraded bone structure in your back and legs like my brother.

You believe that people can work like that even though with the reduction of such labor the human lifespan has increased by 50%.

It's pretty plain that dementia or whatever is taking it's toll on you. Tell me again how the military lied to me.
  #120  
Old September 7th 17, 03:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,169
Default Jobst

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 10:04:36 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:20 +0700, John B wrote:
On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 17:01:31 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 12:49:06 +0700, John B
wrote:

Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham
Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an
apprenticeship program.

It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for
the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades
became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to
knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand?

Yes to people getting up early to make tomorrow's bread. We have
dozens of bakeries around here with people doing exactly that.

Ditches seem to be dug with mechanized equipment rather than a shovel
these days, and that's probably just as well. That kind of labor ends
up being destructive to the laborer.


Destructive? Exercise? Swinging a pick for eight hours a day. Or doing
any other manual labour. How so?


Seriously? Have you only had desk jobs? Hard labor jobs like digging
ditches, swinging a pick, repeated heavy lifting, etc., routinely cause
damage. Back problems, arthritis, etc. In my career I have seen
thousands of people disabled by the long term toll their careers took on
their bodies. The taxpayers, BTW, are paying for their nursing home
placements.

Back in my days of working in a produce warehouse as a lumper, every
Friday two of us would carry 36,000 pounds of bananas out of the semi
trailer in their boxes, stack 'em on pallets, pull them across the
warehouse into the storage rooms (bananas are kept relatively warm; if
chilled they won't ripen properly) with a manual pallet jack. Even
though I was 22 and strong as an ox in those days, I was damned sore
after that. Watermelons were worse, they weren't in boxes. Back in
those days I could toss a 100 lb bag of spuds on my shoulder and lump it
upstairs, with 50 bag of onions I could run upstairs. Now I probably
couldn't get the bag of spuds up off the floor.



I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I
subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as
early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified
machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were
machine operators.

My apprenticeship, as such, was as a glazier which was my father's
trade. I did that for 7 years during high school and college. But
even in more technical fields like medicine, nursing, etc., there is a
period of apprenticeship by another name.

I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing
employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs,
and, and, but I haven't seen much progress being made.

Well, he's made plenty of progress in being a douchebag.

Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which
certainly contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs?
-- Cheers,

One of the many knots in capitalism. It's a system we're dedicated to
but doesn't really work that well- even though it works better than
all the alternatives tried thus far.


Yup, that paraphrases Winston Churchill, who actually said " Indeed it
has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except
for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

But still, the basic problem with democracy is the politician gets up
and says, "Vote for me." The audience says, "Why?"

As for capitalism.... what else is there?


Good question. Russia and China's attempts at communism didn't pan out.
But capitalism depends on inflation to provide the illusion of growth,
as well as a constantly growing population to provide an expanding
market. If the population stops growing, the economy collapses.
However, we've reached a point where further population growth is
rapidly becoming unsustainable. The massive increase in wealth
disparity over the past 50 years is also unsustainable- top heavy
structures do not stand long. Those who ignore the lessons of history
are doomed to repeat them. Buckle up for deja vu!


I performed heavy labor just long enough to understand that such things could kill a man early and young. But John tells us that as a 7 year old he did them. Right. The first automations that were developed were to PREVENT hard manual labor.
 




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