Latest gear shift tech

On 3/18/2021 8:46 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/18/2021 5:15 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 12:52:40 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

Why do you say things like that? If design simplicity were the goal
rather than operational simplicity, we would still be riding downtube
shifters and riding 27 1/4" tires with Shrader valves.


Au contraire.

Simplicity is my fixed gear + front caliper with tubulars.
I stopped thinking about the bike years ago. It just works so I just ride.

It's very handy to have a bike like that - although mine is a bit more
complex: a 3 speed with a S-A front hub dynamo. It does require a few
drops of oil in the rear S-A hub every month or so.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/18/2021 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


Well, there is that famous Eddy quotation.

When presenting Merckx with a bike equipped with the very
new DuraAce SIS Six, Mr Shimano said, "You'll never miss a
shift!"

To which Himself replied, "I haven't missed a shift since I
was 12 years old."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/18/2021 9:05 PM, James wrote:
On 19/3/21 9:50 am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/


When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


If Eddy was a true believer in down tube shifters, surely his range of
bicycles sold today would reflect that?

https://www.eddymerckx.com/

Well, since hairs always require splitting he

1) Perhaps Eddy _was_ a true believer in down tube shifters (compared to
what? Rod shifters? Bar end shifters?) but _now_ has a different opinion.

2) Or perhaps Eddy still personally prefers down tube shifters (there
are those who do) but realizes that he'd sell far fewer bikes if that
was the default on his bikes.

More seriously, I don't know how enthusiastic Eddy was about technology
changes back in his glory days. Perhaps he wasn't much interested?
Unlike say LeMond, he didn't seem to need technological advances to win.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/18/2021 8:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/18/2021 9:05 PM, James wrote:
On 19/3/21 9:50 am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic
hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/


When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn
such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube
shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the
greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html



If Eddy was a true believer in down tube shifters, surely
his range of bicycles sold today would reflect that?

https://www.eddymerckx.com/

Well, since hairs always require splitting he

1) Perhaps Eddy _was_ a true believer in down tube shifters
(compared to what? Rod shifters? Bar end shifters?) but
_now_ has a different opinion.

2) Or perhaps Eddy still personally prefers down tube
shifters (there are those who do) but realizes that he'd
sell far fewer bikes if that was the default on his bikes.

More seriously, I don't know how enthusiastic Eddy was about
technology changes back in his glory days. Perhaps he wasn't
much interested? Unlike say LeMond, he didn't seem to need
technological advances to win.


I have no idea but that was, what?, some 38 years ago. I
assume Mr Merckx, like everyone and everything, has changed.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 12:05:19 +1100, James
wrote:

On 19/3/21 9:50 am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


If Eddy was a true believer in down tube shifters, surely his range of
bicycles sold today would reflect that?

https://www.eddymerckx.com/

I would suggest that bicycles sold today are equipped with whatever
will influence the buyer to purchase the bike. And I will grantee you
that if a major manufacturer were to market a bicycle with a little
propeller on the front you would be reading, right here on RBT, posts
bragging how "my little propeller is better than your little
propeller" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:21:14 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/18/2021 5:50 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


Well, there is that famous Eddy quotation.

When presenting Merckx with a bike equipped with the very
new DuraAce SIS Six, Mr Shimano said, "You'll never miss a
shift!"

To which Himself replied, "I haven't missed a shift since I
was 12 years old."

Along those lines I remember an article comparing "modern" bikes with
"old Time" bicycles and some of the riders complaining how "dangerous
it was to take one hand off the handle bar to shift". I can't remember
the article (Frank probably can) but I do remember how strange I
thought it was as I had never owned a multi speed bike that didn't
shift on the down tube :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, March 18, 2021 at 6:30:42 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/18/2021 9:05 PM, James wrote:
On 19/3/21 9:50 am, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/


When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

But Frank, it avoids the necessity of having to learn such intricate
skills as shifting with those infernal manual down tube shifters :-)

A note here Eddy Merckz - reckoned by some as the greatest bicycle
racer of all times used down tube shifters.
http://internationalcyclesport.com/h...1969_bike.html


If Eddy was a true believer in down tube shifters, surely his range of
bicycles sold today would reflect that?

https://www.eddymerckx.com/
Well, since hairs always require splitting he

1) Perhaps Eddy _was_ a true believer in down tube shifters (compared to
what? Rod shifters? Bar end shifters?) but _now_ has a different opinion.

2) Or perhaps Eddy still personally prefers down tube shifters (there
are those who do) but realizes that he'd sell far fewer bikes if that
was the default on his bikes.

More seriously, I don't know how enthusiastic Eddy was about technology
changes back in his glory days. Perhaps he wasn't much interested?
Unlike say LeMond, he didn't seem to need technological advances to win.

A few decades before the Merckx era, races were won and lost based on who did or didn't have a derailleur. During the Merckx era, technology was drillium and maybe a Ti bit and tires. Merckx didn't have a lot of choices, although he apparently believed in the magic of frame builders, considering his allegiance to Ugo, unless he just likes the guy. As for the over-all effect of technology, TdF average speeds are 2-4 mph average over the early Merckx years. It could be better drugs. Who knows.

LeMond's belief in technology got him the win in 1989 -- or Fignon's disbelief cost him the race. Some technology makes a big difference for civilians -- and a lot not. I love STI. Electronic is not a game changer for me. It's kind of neat. Clincher technology is now great, having tried everything starting with the first Elans and Turbos. It probably wasn't until 20 years ago that they really caught up with tubulars. I like discs on my rain bike and commuter. Compact and lots of gears are mitigating my decrepitude and bad knees. I couldn't turn the gears I rode thirty years ago. Ebikes have my wife riding again -- along with a bunch of the old ladies in the neighborhood. It's like ebike old-lady gangs.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

Would a dynamo powered shifting system be acceptable?
If not, trade in your dynamo powered headlight and go back to kerosene
or carbide lanterns.
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia

There is a place where things are less complexicated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2018/06/22/inside-the-u-s-s-national-radio-quiet-zone-where-theres-no-wifi-or-cellphone-service/
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2013/10/08/218976699/enter-the-quiet-zone-where-cell-service-wi-fi-are-banned
No cell phones, wi-fi, microwave ovens, ham radio, high power
broadcasting, cableTV(?), or wireless bicycle shifting systems.
Seems like a Luddites paradise.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:05:30 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:52:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/18/2021 3:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
I remember advertisements for Bendix 2-speed Automatic hubs, "No Pesky
Cables!"

Shimano achieves that goal differently:

https://bikerumor.com/2021/03/16/pat...fting-details/

When did maximum complexity become a bike design goal?

Would a dynamo powered shifting system be acceptable?
If not, trade in your dynamo powered headlight and go back to kerosene
or carbide lanterns.
https://phobia.wikia.org/wiki/Electrophobia

There is a place where things are less complexicated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-sight/wp/2018/06/22/inside-the-u-s-s-national-radio-quiet-zone-where-theres-no-wifi-or-cellphone-service/
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2013/10/08/218976699/enter-the-quiet-zone-where-cell-service-wi-fi-are-banned
No cell phones, wi-fi, microwave ovens, ham radio, high power
broadcasting, cableTV(?), or wireless bicycle shifting systems.
Seems like a Luddites paradise.

Goodness! There really is life without a smart phone?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 12:05:19 +1100, James
wrote:

If Eddy was a true believer in down tube shifters, surely his range of
bicycles sold today would reflect that?
https://www.eddymerckx.com/

I guess I'm also a true believer in down tube shifters. Miyata 610:
https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Miyata-610.JPG
I like down tube shifters because they allow me to add more gadgets
and clutter one the handlebars (GPS, radio, camera, smartphone, coffee
holder, etc). However, the real reason is that I learned to use them
from my first bicycle (Peugeot something).

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558