Seeking the most breathable rainjacket

Jim Smith writes:

Don't get Gore-tex, it doesn't dry well and it's breathability is
useless for a rider on a climb. It gets wet inside and out and
stays that way for the rest of the day. I've tried them all.

I agree on the Gore-Tex limits of breathability. There's no way
it's going to breath enough for intense efforts. But aren't you
attributing poor fabric properties (not drying out) to Gore-Tex,
when it has nothing to do with them?

Find a true Gore-Tex shell, without soft surface fabric or liner
and try drying it. I've found they dry out plenty quick, but then
again they "breath" even less than the jackets that have a more
porous fabric that you seem to refer to above.

Somewhat confusingly, the one to get is the 3-layer Gore-tex, which
is actually lighter than the 2-layer because it does not require a
separate fabric liner.

I agree that Gore-tex doesn't help much when you are exerting
yourself heavily, but for moderate and light conditions I find it
much more comfortable than a completely non permeable shell. I have
also found lightweight gore-tex shells to be fast drying. I like
'em. Only downside is the cost.

I have not found a climb moderate enough to stay dry in a Gore-tex
jacket. Since these are all covered with cloth (that is also supposed
to breathe) the whole jacket gets wet from the inside from
perspiration and the outside from rain and neither dries as quickly as
a waterproof thin parka.

The main point is that I use this for touring the Alps and because it
can snow any day of the year (and it does often) I need a parka with a
cinchable hood... no pockets or vents. Climbing, I leave the front as
open as wind permits.

One of the more important features is stiffness and close fit because
when descending, wet or dry, cold protection is prime. If the jacket
flaps in the wind it does not protect because flapping is forced
convection and nullifies the "still air" insulation one expects from a
"windbreaker". You can test this when descending by assuming a
position on the bicycle that prevents flapping, for instance, by
tucking the elbows inward and clamping the main body that way. The
improvement in warmth is strikingly noticeable.

Besides a non-flapping parka, a long sleeved athletic undershirt keeps
the cold shell off the arms.

In July 2001:

http://tinyurl.com/a9g7

I once arrived at this summit while it was snowing, changed my damp
jersey and undershirt for a dry set and descended in great warmth with
the bill of my cycling cap my snow diverter as I peered out from just
under the edge. The cap also keeps the parka hood from slipping down
over the eyes.

Welcome to the Wy'East Fabrics Online Catalog
Wy'East Fabrics sells outdoor fabrics and supplies for sewing equipment
and clothing.
We also repair backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, jackets, pants, ...
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i use Wyeast fabric daily and find the quality excellent!
Lindgren's book is the primer.

Sew & repair your outdoor gear /
Author: Sumner, Louise Lindgren, 1943-
Publication: Seattle : The Mountaineers, 1988
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 337
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Welcome to the Wy'East Fabrics Online Catalog
Wy'East Fabrics sells outdoor fabrics and supplies for sewing equipment
and clothing.
We also repair backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, jackets, pants, ...
www.wyeastfabrics.com/catalog.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

i use Wyeast fabric daily and find the quality excellent!
Lindgren's book is the primer.

Sew & repair your outdoor gear /
Author: Sumner, Louise Lindgren, 1943-
Publication: Seattle : The Mountaineers, 1988
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 337
More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author |
Advanced options ...
See more details for locating this item

Welcome to the Wy'East Fabrics Online Catalog
Wy'East Fabrics sells outdoor fabrics and supplies for sewing equipment
and clothing.
We also repair backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, jackets, pants, ...
www.wyeastfabrics.com/catalog.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

i use Wyeast fabric daily and find the quality excellent!
Lindgren's book is the primer.

Sew & repair your outdoor gear /
Author: Sumner, Louise Lindgren, 1943-
Publication: Seattle : The Mountaineers, 1988
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 337
More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author |
Advanced options ...
See more details for locating this item

yup. fore thought, planning, experience.
i accumulated hmmm 5? nylon jackets of varying cloth weight, fit,
liner, liner fleece, no liners.
and here in sw fla ( i arrived from NYC and Penn's northern tier) use
only the lightest normally and rarely the next heaviest.
the heavy columbia? only for standing around while wet.
it's like golf clubs.
i assume the more expensive gore tex like models have the greatest
comfort range
but several from the local thrift (try bel air) gives a selection and
the experience at low cost!
take a look at the local temp range and speak with local backpackers
and search to backpacker.com and visit the library to range thru the
backpacker magazine collection.

John Everett wrote:

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:18:27 GMT,
wrote:

I'd like to have a lightweight rain jacket/shell in which I don't
feel clammy when cycling distances at a modest pace. Am I seeking
the Holy Grail?

Get a parka with a sinchable hood because that is what you'll need
descending in rain or snow. In fact without a hood, descending
larger hills in the cold becomes impossible. It was one thing that
enables Andy Hampsten to pass frozen riders on his victory in the G
d'I over the Gavia Pass in the snow.

Such parkas are not sold in bicycle shops, but outdoor stores have
them and they are lightweight. Don't get Gore-tex, it doesn't dry
well and it's breathability is useless for a rider on a climb. It
gets wet inside and out and stays that way for the rest of the day.

Our LBS sells the "Rainshield O2" jackets like this one at Nashbar:

http://tinyurl.com/cl2un

I don't believe the breathability part -- it looks like a plain old rain slicker
to me. But for 30 bucks you can hardly go wrong. They come with a detatchable
hood, and there's a regular hooded model too.

The clear PVC racers' jackets can be had for ten bucks if you shop agressively,
but they don't have hoods.

I just got an REI E1 Elements jacket, which in addition to meeting
Jobst's criteria also has zippers in the underarm area. While I bought
it primarily for hiking/backpacking, it looks like a good bet for wet
weather cycling also.

There's no reason why it can't be. But cycling-specific jackets are tailored
better for cycling -- slimmer cut to prevent billowing like a parachute, and
designed to fit a rider in riding position. The slim cut is especially
important these days, when all generalized clothing seems to be cut for "the
average American." I have some older jackets and pullovers from the 80s that
work great. Things were tailored much slimmer back then.

My biggest complaint with cycling rainwear is that it doesn't crush small enough
to fit in a normal seat bag. This is where the Showers Pass jackets rule,
compared to similar Burley, etc. Showers Pass is the only company that seems to
be addressing this. Probably the Burley designers don't care, because in
Portland they never take theirs off!

Those clear PVC racers' jackets would be fine if they put some vents and pit
zips in them. Unfortunately the marketroids have decided everything has to be
either super cheap, or super expensive, with Gore-Tex and the whole nine yards.
Why can't we have a mid-priced jacket with the features we really need -- a
cycling-specific cut, waterproof but not necessarily breathable (or super
expensive) fabric, sealed seams, and vents and/or pit zips -- that crushes into
a small package?

Matt O.

wrote in message
...
Jim Smith writes:

Don't get Gore-tex, it doesn't dry well and it's
breathability is
useless for a rider on a climb. It gets wet inside and out
and
stays that way for the rest of the day. I've tried them
all.

I agree on the Gore-Tex limits of breathability. There's no
way
it's going to breath enough for intense efforts. But aren't
you
attributing poor fabric properties (not drying out) to
Gore-Tex,
when it has nothing to do with them?

Find a true Gore-Tex shell, without soft surface fabric or
liner
and try drying it. I've found they dry out plenty quick,
but then
again they "breath" even less than the jackets that have a
more
porous fabric that you seem to refer to above.

Somewhat confusingly, the one to get is the 3-layer Gore-tex,
which
is actually lighter than the 2-layer because it does not
require a
separate fabric liner.

I agree that Gore-tex doesn't help much when you are exerting
yourself heavily, but for moderate and light conditions I
find it
much more comfortable than a completely non permeable shell.
I have
also found lightweight gore-tex shells to be fast drying. I
like
'em. Only downside is the cost.

I have not found a climb moderate enough to stay dry in a
Gore-tex
jacket. Since these are all covered with cloth (that is also
supposed
to breathe) the whole jacket gets wet from the inside from
perspiration and the outside from rain and neither dries as
quickly as
a waterproof thin parka.

The main point is that I use this for touring the Alps and
because it
can snow any day of the year (and it does often) I need a parka
with a
cinchable hood... no pockets or vents. Climbing, I leave the
front as
open as wind permits.

One of the more important features is stiffness and close fit
because
when descending, wet or dry, cold protection is prime. If the
jacket
flaps in the wind it does not protect because flapping is
forced
convection and nullifies the "still air" insulation one expects
from a
"windbreaker". You can test this when descending by assuming a
position on the bicycle that prevents flapping, for instance,
by
tucking the elbows inward and clamping the main body that way.
The
improvement in warmth is strikingly noticeable.

A tailored (reduced flap) waterproof shell with zippered arm
vents is versatile for layering, and the vents can be closed for
descending. I frequently climb in the rain and find that venting
is helpful, and certainly more helpful that PTFE laminate. If I
need head warmth, I take a balaclava and helmet. If it is that
cold, I like to protect my sinuses as well as my ears, and a hood
with a helmet tends to create blinders. Like you say, underwear
is key, and for me, really good booties because I hate wet
eet. -- Jay Beattie.

Jim Smith wrote:

I agree that Gore-tex doesn't help much when you are exerting yourself
heavily, but for moderate and light conditions I find it much more
comfortable than a completely non permeable shell. I have also found
lightweight gore-tex shells to be fast drying. I like 'em. Only
downside is the cost.

I agree with this completely.

Matt O.

Jan Lindstrom wrote:
wrote:
Don't get Gore-tex, it doesn't dry
well and it's breathability is useless for a rider on a climb. It
gets wet inside and out and stays that way for the rest of the day.

I've tried them all.



I agree on the Gore-Tex limits of breathability. There's no way it's
going to breath enough for intense efforts. But aren't you attributing
poor fabric properties (not drying out) to Gore-Tex, when it has nothing
to do with them?

Find a true Gore-Tex shell, without soft surface fabric or liner and try
drying it. I've found they dry out plenty quick, but then again they
"breath" even less than the jackets that have a more porous fabric that
you seem to refer to above.

In any case, I don't expect Gore-Tex to keep me dry on a climb, either.

The OP asked what lightweight rain jacket/shell in which he won't feel
clammy when cycling distances at a modest pace. Gore-tex is great
for that. Some competing products are not.

dkl

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Jan Lindstrom wrote:
wrote:
Don't get Gore-tex, it doesn't dry
well and it's breathability is useless for a rider on a climb. It
gets wet inside and out and stays that way for the rest of the day.

I've tried them all.



I agree on the Gore-Tex limits of breathability. There's no way it's
going to breath enough for intense efforts. But aren't you attributing
poor fabric properties (not drying out) to Gore-Tex, when it has nothing
to do with them?

Find a true Gore-Tex shell, without soft surface fabric or liner and try
drying it. I've found they dry out plenty quick, but then again they
"breath" even less than the jackets that have a more porous fabric that
you seem to refer to above.


_ Maybe all the goretex jacket's I've tried are bad[1], but I've
never had one that would dry out with body heat after it got
soaked. They work great until they don't and then the are clammy,
cold and uncomfortable until you get someplace where you can
take it off and let it dry.

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- I've had some kind of goretex jacket since they first
appeared in the late 70's.

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