Lost in a maze of twisty shifters, all alike (or is it all different?)

Jasper Janssen wrote:

Yeah, but they're drop bar thingies. Not using drop bars on this bike.

I'd highly recommend drop bars for a touring bike. The flat bars only
make sense for steep climbs and descents... MTB riding. With drop bars
you have more hand/body position options where you can also get to the
brakes easily.

On 28 Aug 2005 12:39:29 -0700, "Ron Ruff" wrote:
Jasper Janssen wrote:

Do you have a link to the SJS adapters?

http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?item10405.htm


I wonder how they are made... they don't really look like they are
cnc'd. Also, Paul's (and old thumb shifters) are farther forward, so

It says CNC, I assume it's a thick layer of paint that hides the machining
marks.

the feel would be a little different. The rotation, like Paul's, is not
adjustable.

Well, the Tourney thumbies I had (I still have the left one, but the right
was screwed) were pretty close to right on top of the bar, not that huge
forward offset that Paul's Thumbies converters have.

Incidentally, all the Dura Ace and Ultegra barcons seem to have ugly grey
plastic levers compared to the DT versions with nice, slim, polished alu
arms. Why do these adapters take the barcon levers instead of the DT
levers? Is there a mechanical difference there? Since the DT levers are
cheaper and you don't actually use the bar-end clamping part, you'd think
they'd specifically go for that.

I thought the grey part would provide a better grip, but it is really
very slippery (hard plastic). I think the DT shifters would work... can
you get them in 9 and 10spd? The SJS price is only 30 pounds for the
9spd barend shifters, though... that's pretty cheap.

The relevant SJS prices I see are (all in UK pounds, not US dollars):

SJS Thumbshifter conversion set: 30 quid. [2]

Kelly Takeoff adapters, use DT levers and need also DT cable stops with
adjuster: 40 quid

For reference, a Pauls Thumbies set for MTB bars is 55 USD at their
website which is 30.5 UK pounds in straight currency conversion, but that
doesn't take into account sales taxes (and import taxes when you order 'em
in europe).

Complete SJS thumbshifter sets, 7/8, 9, and 10 respectively 60, 60, and 70
pounds. All have the same picture, showing Dura Ace 9, but I assume that's
only correct for one of them.[1]

Braze on DT shifters: DA10 45, DA9 35, various 7 and 8 spd 30-40.

Bar-end shifters: DA10 55, DA9 43, Ultegra 7/8 40.


Jasper

[1] Intriguingly, the lever shown seems to be compatible with both 9 and 8
speed DA derailers. Is 8 speed Dura Ace essentially 8-of-9? ie, cable pull
per gear on DA8 is the same as on all S9, whereas on the rest of the
series, cable pull per gear on S7 and S8 are the same (because all S
derailers apart from DA8 have the same mechanical advantage, and 7 and 8
speed Shimano have the same spacing per cog)?

[2] The description says, and I quote "CNC alloy brackets to convert 7/8
or 9 speed Shimano Ultegra bar end levers into old fashioned thumbies,
also needs the Shimano adjusters from the down tube stops. Complete with
screws and washers" -- Do Shimano barcons normally come with DT cable
stops & barrel adjusters included, or are they separate items? What about
DT levers? Do they have an integral barrel adjuster hidden somewhere?

On 28 Aug 2005 12:55:58 -0700, "Ron Ruff" wrote:
Jasper Janssen wrote:

Yeah, but they're drop bar thingies. Not using drop bars on this bike.

I'd highly recommend drop bars for a touring bike. The flat bars only
make sense for steep climbs and descents... MTB riding. With drop bars
you have more hand/body position options where you can also get to the
brakes easily.

Wasn't planning on flat bars, either. Those suck. There's various shapes
and sizes which were not dreamt of in thy philosophy, and stuff, though.
I'm all for multiple positions, but I want something that's closer to my
customary Dutch Bend. A variant on that, to be sure, since the dutch bend
itself is fairly single-position.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen wrote:
[1] Intriguingly, the lever shown seems to be compatible with both 9 and 8
speed DA derailers. Is 8 speed Dura Ace essentially 8-of-9? ie, cable pull
per gear on DA8 is the same as on all S9, whereas on the rest of the
series, cable pull per gear on S7 and S8 are the same (because all S
derailers apart from DA8 have the same mechanical advantage, and 7 and 8
speed Shimano have the same spacing per cog)?


I'd guess so... DA8 was different than S8 but 9 and 10 are all the
same. Apparently the cable pull per gear on DA 8 and S9 are the same...
or at least close enough.

Do Shimano barcons normally come with DT cable
stops & barrel adjusters included, or are they separate items? What about
DT levers? Do they have an integral barrel adjuster hidden somewhere?

My 9spd barends came with DT cable adjusters. With DT shifters I think
you have to use the adjuster at the rear der.

I'd like to know if there is any difference between the diameter of
where the cable wraps on DT vs barends... or in other words, is there a
difference in the angular travel of the levers? I'd like something that
travels less than my barends do, if possible.

Jasper Janssen wrote:

http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?item10405.htm


Another observation about these adapters... I question the wisdom of
using the bolt that holds the shifter in place to also tension the
clamp. These shifters require a light bolt tension to work properly;
otherwise the action becomes stiff.

Oddly, my Thumbies left (front) shifter had a long bolt with a nut on
the back side to keep it from loosening, but the right side didn't...
and it kept coming loose. It was easy enough to get a longer bolt and a
nut, though. On the SJS model this isn't a possibility.

Jasper Janssen wrote:
snips galore
Okay, Primary: 'RapidRise' aka Low Normal. This uses the derailer spring
to shift to larger cogs, correct? Why does that give better shifting onto
larger cogs (as Sheldon and others claim both in threads here and on That
Website)?

I have tried the low normal Shimano parts (first M953, then Nexus and
M760/M960). If granny likes Nexus better than Deore, I can live with
that. But I can discern no difference in shift quality between
M953/M760/M960 and the M750/M952 it replaced. Should someone who can't
get perfect downshifts out of M750/M952 even have high end components?
Of course, if you're trying to spend a lot of money, low normal has big
potential.
Maybe I should rephrase that without the part numbers: I haven't found
that low normal works any better in practice, but it does cost more, so
it's inferior.

-Vee

Maybe I should also clarify that, by "granny", I'm not refering Sheldon
(I shalt not take the name of Sheldon in vain). I meant to say that
the comfort bike/hybrid contingent might benefit from rapid rise/low
normal/whathaveyou. But how does anyone else get anything out of it?

-Vee

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 21:39:38 GMT, Jasper Janssen
wrote:
On 28 Aug 2005 12:55:58 -0700, "Ron Ruff" wrote:
Jasper Janssen wrote:

Yeah, but they're drop bar thingies. Not using drop bars on this bike.

I'd highly recommend drop bars for a touring bike. The flat bars only
make sense for steep climbs and descents... MTB riding. With drop bars
you have more hand/body position options where you can also get to the
brakes easily.

Wasn't planning on flat bars, either. Those suck. There's various shapes
and sizes which were not dreamt of in thy philosophy, and stuff, though.
I'm all for multiple positions, but I want something that's closer to my
customary Dutch Bend. A variant on that, to be sure, since the dutch bend
itself is fairly single-position.

Actually the thing I had in mind, I just found out, is called a 'Trekking'
or 'Euro touring' bar. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/deakins/handlebars.html

Sort of like Moustache bars, but more so.

Jasper