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#311
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 2018-07-24 19:53, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:41:08 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-23 18:27, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:13:21 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 21:44, John B. Slocomb wrote: [...] In Bangkok, because of the traffic I ride really in the morning, about the time that a bloke might be setting off for the office and I do, occasionally see people that seem heading for work, but I see far more that just seem out for a ride. Now, I am aware that there are individuals who have and do ride to work but I would also have to say that an anomaly doesn't necessarily prove a point. The fact that a certain number of people up in the N.W. corner of the U.S. enjoy riding in the rain (they must the only times I have ever been in the Sea-Tac area it rained) isn't necessarily proof positive that an equal number of folks are riding to work in Nome, Alaska, or Dry Prong, Louisiana. Now, I am aware that people do ride a bicycle to the shop to get a can of beans but these same people have one or two cars in the garage. We do have two cars in the garage. Each sees around 1000mi/year. I assume you can guess why those numbers are so low, mine used to be much higher. Before feeling too virtuous have a look at the Bayley's pages. they ride between 10,000 and 14,000 (Pamela) or 17,000 (John) miles annually and apparently have never owned a car. If you have everything big delivered that's possible. However, then you must count the miles and environmental impact of all the delivery vehicles. If the bicycles are for work, what are the cars for? Have you ever tried to haul half a ton of wood pellets, firewood, construction lumber and whatnot on a bicycle, uphill? With uphill I mean some serious hills. Why ever not? Small loads and many trips, just as you would if you were walking. The argument, "OH! It is too big for my bike", is just that an argument for using the car. Obviously you have never hauled four cords of firewood from a location that is 1400ft lower than where you live. That's eight tons. Quite the opposite. I spent much of my second career transporting stuff through jungles, up and down hills and through swamps. I'm quite aware of the effort of moving tons of machinery and equipment up and down hills. On a bicycle. Through the jungle. Right. Or just 30 bags of pellets at 50lbs each. Yeah, you could make 30 trips while sweating profusely. However, some of us still need to work and earn money. You make my point exactly. You could haul the pellets but it would take a lot of trips and you'd rather use the car. Or in other words, you didn't need the car, it was a convenience. Again, if you still need to generate an income for the family you do need the car in such situations because you cannot speend months on a bicycle schlepping stuff up the hill. It is not a matter of choice. Once retired, different story. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#312
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 11:24:55 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-26 08:57, Frank Krygowski wrote: Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride their bikes. https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/ Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day. That was quite different when I lived in the Netherlands in the 80's. Whenever I asked friends "Hey, want to have a few beers and a cheese platter in the Kaaskelder?" the answer was usually "YES!". That meant 40mi round trip with the return part in the night yet everyone naturally assumed we'd bike there. The decision was greatly helped by an almost seemless bike path from A to Z. That works for them because their cities are so dense that many destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities that were founded in medieval times. No, that comes from not having the stupid zoning laws we have. If I needed groceries or nearly anything else I could walk. As in "just across the street" which is, for example, where the grocery store was. The bank was immediately next door, literally. The post office was diagonally across the street. The next church was less than 500ft away. And so on. ... When things are more than a couple miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes. So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so. Last time I was there I had the impression cycling wasn't quite as popular as in the 80's. New generations? Who knows. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Joerg, I would have expected you to know that actual knowledge is always over-ridden by wild-ass imagination. |
#313
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:38:57 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-07-24 19:53, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:41:08 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-23 18:27, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:13:21 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-07-22 21:44, John B. Slocomb wrote: [...] In Bangkok, because of the traffic I ride really in the morning, about the time that a bloke might be setting off for the office and I do, occasionally see people that seem heading for work, but I see far more that just seem out for a ride. Now, I am aware that there are individuals who have and do ride to work but I would also have to say that an anomaly doesn't necessarily prove a point. The fact that a certain number of people up in the N.W. corner of the U.S. enjoy riding in the rain (they must the only times I have ever been in the Sea-Tac area it rained) isn't necessarily proof positive that an equal number of folks are riding to work in Nome, Alaska, or Dry Prong, Louisiana. Now, I am aware that people do ride a bicycle to the shop to get a can of beans but these same people have one or two cars in the garage. We do have two cars in the garage. Each sees around 1000mi/year. I assume you can guess why those numbers are so low, mine used to be much higher. Before feeling too virtuous have a look at the Bayley's pages. they ride between 10,000 and 14,000 (Pamela) or 17,000 (John) miles annually and apparently have never owned a car. If you have everything big delivered that's possible. However, then you must count the miles and environmental impact of all the delivery vehicles. If the bicycles are for work, what are the cars for? Have you ever tried to haul half a ton of wood pellets, firewood, construction lumber and whatnot on a bicycle, uphill? With uphill I mean some serious hills. Why ever not? Small loads and many trips, just as you would if you were walking. The argument, "OH! It is too big for my bike", is just that an argument for using the car. Obviously you have never hauled four cords of firewood from a location that is 1400ft lower than where you live. That's eight tons. Quite the opposite. I spent much of my second career transporting stuff through jungles, up and down hills and through swamps. I'm quite aware of the effort of moving tons of machinery and equipment up and down hills. On a bicycle. Through the jungle. Right. Well, not on a bicycle but certainly through the jungle. I might add that in some places, usually swamps, we carried the cargo on our heads, arms, back, any way we could get it there. The sysmic crews, who admitedly didn't work for me, were strictly human powered. Every thing that they did was powered by hand. Cut a path through the jungle - by hand. Drill the shot holes - by hand. Carry everything through the jungle - by hand. Build a camp - by hand. Or just 30 bags of pellets at 50lbs each. Yeah, you could make 30 trips while sweating profusely. However, some of us still need to work and earn money. You make my point exactly. You could haul the pellets but it would take a lot of trips and you'd rather use the car. Or in other words, you didn't need the car, it was a convenience. Again, if you still need to generate an income for the family you do need the car in such situations because you cannot speend months on a bicycle schlepping stuff up the hill. It is not a matter of choice. Once retired, different story. -- Cheers, John B. |
#314
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:56:32 -0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote: So, you are saying that no one lived in the area until automobiles were available? I vaguely recall reading a novel written in the Victorian era. The protagonist's sister married and the two sisters bid each other a tearful good-by forever -- the married sister's new home was ten whole miles away, so there was no way they could visit each other after the wedding. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
#315
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:19:26 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:
I vaguely recall reading a novel written in the Victorian era. The protagonist's sister married and the two sisters bid each other a tearful good-by forever -- the married sister's new home was ten whole miles away, so there was no way they could visit each other after the wedding. I've thought about that sort of thing. I complain because I'm forced to drive an hour each way in various directions to visit family members or friends, or to take care of other business or projects. But when this village was founded, an hour trip wouldn't have gotten me as far as my half hour bike commute did. OTOH, an hour trip back then would have been more environmentally benign. - Frank Krygowski |
#316
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 22:19:24 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote: On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:56:32 -0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: So, you are saying that no one lived in the area until automobiles were available? I vaguely recall reading a novel written in the Victorian era. The protagonist's sister married and the two sisters bid each other a tearful good-by forever -- the married sister's new home was ten whole miles away, so there was no way they could visit each other after the wedding. It depends on where they were living. If they were homesteaders on the American frontier, there was this rather quaint custom called "second sleep": https://www.sciencealert.com/humans-used-to-sleep-in-two-shifts-maybe-we-should-again http://slumberwise.com/science/your-ancestors-didnt-sleep-like-you/ The problem was during the winter, the night was 8 to 15 hrs long depending on latitude[1]. Humans are not built to sleep for more than about 8 hours every night. So, what did they do during those extra hours? Lamp oil (whale oil at the time) was expensive, so reading at night was out. Maybe candles were available, for reading, but not every night[2]. As far as I can determine, they got dressed and either walked or rode over to the neighbors for some late night "socializing". A slow walk by moonlight would probably be at 2 miles/hr. With 6 hrs to burn, our homesteader could make it to a neighbor 2.5 miles away and still have an hour left to "socialize". The standard 160 acre homestead is only 0.25 square-miles or 0.5 miles on a side (if square). A 2.5 miles radius would cover a fairly large number of homesteads within walking distance. However, 10 miles would be a big stretch and probably not practical on a nightly basis. [1] For example, in 1883 Billings, Montana, the night was 8:17hrs long in June, and 15:20hrs in Dec. http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_durtablew.pl?form=1&year=1883&task=1&state=MT&p lace=Billings [2] Try reading by candle light if you want to experience the problem. The light flickers badly and the iris cannot compensate fast enough. For me, it's eyestrain in about 15 minutes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-calm-in-the-storm-reading-by-candlelight/2011/08/26/gIQAoiB8gJ_story.html Candlelight reading is a fantasy that persists even though those who have tried it will attest that the act is not nearly as romantic as it sounds. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#317
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 7/23/2018 7:15 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 5:38:23 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/23/2018 2:25 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: I'm often blinded at night by very bright bicycle strobe lights. I also often get blinded by those blue tinted super bright car headlights. I get very irritated by motorists who refuse to dim their lights. Unfortunately, sometimes when I'm riding at night an oncoming motorist will actually turn on his brights. I don't think it's harassment. I think it's "What the heck is that??" coupled with low IQ. I now do much more night driving on rural roads than I used to. ISTM the worst headlight offenders are pickup truck drivers. Their lights are high, they seem to refuse to dim them more than most, and they very often have auxiliary driving lights that they also leave on. "MFFY." -- - Frank Krygowski What I was referring to are those cars with very bright blue lights that are driving IN TOWN on well lit roads. I've been so blinded by some of those lights that i couldn't see parked cars ahead of me on my side of the road. Thus I had to either slow way down or even stop. Seems that lumen wars aren't restricted to makers of bicycle lights. Cheers There is no need for those vehicle lights on well lit roads but once the vehicle has them as standard equipment there's no way to select the brightness. Audi has a technology for headlights that would solve this problem, but it's not legal in the U.S. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a4093/revolutionary-audi-headlight-tech-banned-in-us/. Vehicle drivers will often activate their high beams when they glimpse an unlit or poorly lit pedestrian or cyclist on the road. They're often not sure what it is when they first see movement. A cyclist, a pedestrian, an animal, etc.. The way to avoid this, as a cyclist anyway, is to use adequate lighting, not just the legal minimum. Pedestrians walking on unlit roads would benefit from at least a little lighting, and I do often see this now, but it's not the norm. The of "low IQ" when a motorist turns on his or her high beams to determine what is on the road, is laughable. The reality is that the cyclist should have sufficient lights that the motorist doesn't have to turn on his or her high beams to figure out that it's a cyclist. Stubbornly refusing to use adequate lighting says much more about the IQ of the cyclists than of the motorist! |
#318
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Making America into Amsterdam
On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 6:56:08 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 7/23/2018 7:15 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 5:38:23 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/23/2018 2:25 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: I'm often blinded at night by very bright bicycle strobe lights. I also often get blinded by those blue tinted super bright car headlights. I get very irritated by motorists who refuse to dim their lights. Unfortunately, sometimes when I'm riding at night an oncoming motorist will actually turn on his brights. I don't think it's harassment. I think it's "What the heck is that??" coupled with low IQ. I now do much more night driving on rural roads than I used to. ISTM the worst headlight offenders are pickup truck drivers. Their lights are high, they seem to refuse to dim them more than most, and they very often have auxiliary driving lights that they also leave on. "MFFY." -- - Frank Krygowski What I was referring to are those cars with very bright blue lights that are driving IN TOWN on well lit roads. I've been so blinded by some of those lights that i couldn't see parked cars ahead of me on my side of the road. Thus I had to either slow way down or even stop. Seems that lumen wars aren't restricted to makers of bicycle lights. Cheers There is no need for those vehicle lights on well lit roads but once the vehicle has them as standard equipment there's no way to select the brightness. Audi has a technology for headlights that would solve this problem, but it's not legal in the U.S. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a4093/revolutionary-audi-headlight-tech-banned-in-us/. Vehicle drivers will often activate their high beams when they glimpse an unlit or poorly lit pedestrian or cyclist on the road. They're often not sure what it is when they first see movement. A cyclist, a pedestrian, an animal, etc.. The way to avoid this, as a cyclist anyway, is to use adequate lighting, not just the legal minimum. Pedestrians walking on unlit roads would benefit from at least a little lighting, and I do often see this now, but it's not the norm. The of "low IQ" when a motorist turns on his or her high beams to determine what is on the road, is laughable. The reality is that the cyclist should have sufficient lights that the motorist doesn't have to turn on his or her high beams to figure out that it's a cyclist. Stubbornly refusing to use adequate lighting says much more about the IQ of the cyclists than of the motorist! More utter nonsense from you! Cheers |
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 7/25/2018 9:19 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:56:32 -0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: So, you are saying that no one lived in the area until automobiles were available? I vaguely recall reading a novel written in the Victorian era. The protagonist's sister married and the two sisters bid each other a tearful good-by forever -- the married sister's new home was ten whole miles away, so there was no way they could visit each other after the wedding. Indeed my girlfriend's family has lived in the same valley since they first arrived in 1840. She says she never dated as a teenager because she was related to everyone in one way or another. Two of her aunts were sisters who married her uncles, and so on. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#320
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Making America into Amsterdam
On 7/25/2018 11:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 10:19:26 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote: I vaguely recall reading a novel written in the Victorian era. The protagonist's sister married and the two sisters bid each other a tearful good-by forever -- the married sister's new home was ten whole miles away, so there was no way they could visit each other after the wedding. I've thought about that sort of thing. I complain because I'm forced to drive an hour each way in various directions to visit family members or friends, or to take care of other business or projects. But when this village was founded, an hour trip wouldn't have gotten me as far as my half hour bike commute did. OTOH, an hour trip back then would have been more environmentally benign. - Frank Krygowski Much as Half Day Road is is suburban Chicago, barely out of town -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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