Planning a very long ride - 8 hrs

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:39:08 -0700, Dan Daniel
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:45:34 -0400, Badger_South
wrote:


I like the idea of the first segment being around 3-4 hours, b/c I have
that much motivation, initially. Then knowing I'm 1/3 to 1/2 way there
helps with the last part. But I like your plan of 2 hours and a 10 min
break after that. As I said, I'm anticipating that the major hurdle will be
80-90% mental. ;-)

-B


Well, at the beginning of the day, mental can be a major hurdle. But
if you use up your glycogen stores, mental stuff gets real hard. A
brain without energy is a very unhappy brain, and things can get very
ugly.

Yeah, I imagine, but I've never really pushed myself to see where that
point is. That's why I'm planning to do it close to home first to get an
idea. I'll certainly ride slower than normal (but not much) and will eat on
the ride.

This might be one of the major physical differences between 3 hours
and 8 hours. In 3 hours you might push the reserves down to zero, but
it's ok. In 8 hours, you have to add new reserves as the day goes
along.

Well I must have a pretty high bonk threshold, b/c I hadn't really eaten
any obvious carbs the previous week, and didn't eat on the ride itself,
when I did the 3.5 hour ride a month or so ago. (famous last words, heh...)

Plan on eating throughout the day. Nothing worse than bonking in the
last half hour before the night's camp ground or final destination.
Those have been the worst times I have had when touring- being 5-10
miles from the night's destination, and being completely beat and
empty.

Right. I'm a fan of adventure racing, although never done it and have been
reading up on that kind of stuff. Probably go all liquid with the diet that
day, or at least 'soft', like pnut butter and bananas and soforth.

I'm sure some here would say 'just ride for the 8 hours, what's the big
deal', but that would be OK for those who have ridden a lot (like frequent
3-4 hour rides), but my longest ride has been 3.5 hours, and only did that
once. I'm hoping to get some posts on others who have done something like
this, and their experiences vs the initial expectations.


Doing one day of excessive miles is actually quite easy. It's the next
day to watch out for!

I believe it. Thing is I do a lot of weight training and even on rides that
I think will be excessive, I don't have any pain in the legs or anything
the next day. Only thing that might be a bother is I tend to get some
cramping either in the hands or the feet, but it passes. Guess I'll be
making sure to get the potassium and calcium supps and so forth.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

-Badger

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:02:39 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:46:43 -0400, Rick Onanian
:: wrote:
::
::: On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:48:12 -0400, Badger_South
::: wrote:
:::: I'm toying with the idea of doing a long ride this fall, after a
:::: summer of 400 mile/months, and I'm interested in some ideas as to
:::: pacing. Here's something I've been thinking about:
::: snip
:::
::: You're not ready.
:::
::: Work up to it. Do a 4 hour ride this weekend. Add a half hour or an
::: hour every weekend.
::
:: I'm not ready, in regards to what? Are you saying I could -not- do
:: this ride at my current level of training by, say Oct?

I think he suggested you work up to an 8-hour ride over time, rather than
just jumping to 8 hours of total riding per day.

You know, there are people who have PhDs (like Ed Burke) and years of riding
experience combined who write books on training for long rides (and other
stuff regarding cycling). You're educated, but a noob to riding...why not
avail yourself of accumlated knowledge and hard-won time in the saddle?

I understand the need to build up. But IMO, it should be possible to do the
8 hours on a bike in the staged way I mentioned, on a fairly flat course
without too much trouble. Note that I said above that I planned to do it in
the fall, and would be ramping up, but I doubt if I'll ride anything over 4
hours in training. I want to see what happens when I push it, and have to
dig deep. If you compare those guys who do adventure racing, they don't
come anywhere -near- those kinds of miles in their training. Heh, if
playboy bunnies can nearly finish a 6-10 day race in Borneo, surely I can
do a measley 8 hours on a bike in the flat and level, eh?

But thanks for the comments, honestly, Rog.

-B


::
:: Bet me $500, and I'll do it tomorrow, big guy! ;-
::
:: -B

On 12 Jun 2004 02:03:39 GMT, (Denver C. Fox) wrote:

I'm not ready, in regards to what? Are you saying I could -not- do this
ride at my current level of training by, say Oct?

Bet me $500, and I'll do it tomorrow, big guy! ;-


Why do you enter a newsgroup, ask for advice from knowledgeable people, and
then argue with the advice?

Just read and absorb and make your own decision!

Not I did -not- ask for advice. I asked for those who had done something
like that and to recount their experiences.

I'm -absolutely- sure I could do this tomorrow with no more prep then the
last 5 months training of two and three-a-day rides, and having ridden
every day since last August. Especially since I recently did a half-century
on a 45lb beater bike and felt completely fine. We're not talking the
Ironman here, ya know.

I'm not arguing with the advice either, I'm just asking for clarification.

-B



http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns
(Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

Badger_South wrote:
I've read stories (admittedly of younger riders) only training for a year
to do some touring and then actually get in shape during the tour. Of
course they were riding with a group and stuff.

fwiw, i did a 3 month solo tour of 85 miles/day on a 2.5 year base of mostly
commuting (before that i'd taken a few years off cycling) ~ 25-34 miles/day
3 to 5 days/week 8 months of the year. about a month before i left i did
two longer rides (62 and 75 miles) and felt okay afterwards (the first one
taught me to hydrate, btw .. i got minor flu like symptoms) so i hit the
road. the first week felt good and it only got better from there.

if you're ready it's my belief you know it. the leap from 30 to 85 or even
100 isn't the hard part. the hard part is from 0 or 10 to 30 *DAILY*. my
routine was pretty consistent .. up at the crack of 10am (i'm a night person),
eat a big breakfast, ride 40 miles or so, eat a big lunch and ride another 30
or so, eat an afternoon snack and ride the remainder, then eat a big dinner.
eat, eat, eat and i still lost 15 pounds.

as long as you're riding 30 or so miles daily the hump is probably much more
mental than physical.
--
david reuteler

Badger_South wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:22:38 -0400, David Kerber
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I'm toying with the idea of doing a long ride this fall, after a summer of
400 mile/months, and I'm interested in some ideas as to pacing. Here's
something I've been thinking about:

How long is "long" (mile-wise, that is)?

I'm not too worried about the mileage, although I would hope that after 8
hours of well-spaced riding that it would be around 100 miles.

Ride for three hours, then 30 min rest (and take a shower?), eat, then ride
for 2 hours, repeat rest, then ride for an hour, repeat rest, then ride
final 2 hours. Does that seem like a good scheme? 3-2-1-2?

People who do touring and stuff ride about 8 hours a day for like 2 weeks.
'Course they're sightseeing so it's more fun. It would probably require a
"support crew" to bring food and change of clothes and stuff. If you were
gonna do it how would you break it up?

I'd probably put the first rest stop well before the 3 hour point, and
space them more evenly. Maybe 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5, or 2-2-2-2. Also,
30 minutes might be too long of a break; it might give your muscles too
long, so that you would need a long warm up again when you start back up
YMMV a lot on this, and will probably depend on the weather (temperature
particularly). More frequent, shorter breaks work well for many people,
such as 5 to 10 minutes every hour.

Oh, I forgot to mention that. I find that a 2 min rest every 10-15 miles
helps a lot, and I plan to incorporate that in addition to the other rest
stops.

I like the idea of the first segment being around 3-4 hours, b/c I have
that much motivation, initially. Then knowing I'm 1/3 to 1/2 way there
helps with the last part. But I like your plan of 2 hours and a 10 min
break after that. As I said, I'm anticipating that the major hurdle will be
80-90% mental. ;-)

-B


When I do a century, I mentally break it down into four 25 mile
segments, and I don't think beyond the current segment. 25 miles goes
by fairly quickly, and I find that it doesn't seem too long before I'm
finishing the third segment, and have only 25 miles left to go. If
boredom is a problem for you on long rides, see if you can find a
friend who rides at a similar pace (a club is a good source for riding
friends) who can ride at least part of the way. Also, if you can
select a visually interesting route that you aren't really familiar
with, it might make it more interesting. Should be lots of visual
stimulation in Virginia Beach, though! :-) Also see if you can select
your route so that there are minimal stops and starts, such as traffic
lights, cross streets, etc. The constant stopping and restarting can
really wear you down after a while.

The important thing is to condition your legs to spin for many hours
at a time, and short rides of less than 15 miles or so aren't really
going to help very much. If you can do a couple rides a week in the 30
to 40 mile range, it will help a lot, along with at least one day a
week off the bike for recovery. Your muscles get stronger on the days
that you rest, not the days that you ride.

Have fun!

Jonathan Quist

On 12 Jun 2004 04:52:19 GMT, David Reuteler wrote:

Badger_South wrote:
I've read stories (admittedly of younger riders) only training for a year
to do some touring and then actually get in shape during the tour. Of
course they were riding with a group and stuff.

fwiw, i did a 3 month solo tour of 85 miles/day on a 2.5 year base of mostly
commuting (before that i'd taken a few years off cycling) ~ 25-34 miles/day
3 to 5 days/week 8 months of the year. about a month before i left i did
two longer rides (62 and 75 miles) and felt okay afterwards (the first one
taught me to hydrate, btw .. i got minor flu like symptoms) so i hit the
road. the first week felt good and it only got better from there.

if you're ready it's my belief you know it. the leap from 30 to 85 or even
100 isn't the hard part. the hard part is from 0 or 10 to 30 *DAILY*. my
routine was pretty consistent .. up at the crack of 10am (i'm a night person),
eat a big breakfast, ride 40 miles or so, eat a big lunch and ride another 30
or so, eat an afternoon snack and ride the remainder, then eat a big dinner.
eat, eat, eat and i still lost 15 pounds.

as long as you're riding 30 or so miles daily the hump is probably much more
mental than physical.

Thanks for relating your experience. If you don't mind my asking, where did
you tour? Road condition - flat, gentle rolling, etc.?

As to the mental vs physical, yeah I think that's the main issue.

My brother, 155lbs, and 5'6" has only been riding (and somewhat
sporadically at that) since March on a MTB rode 31 miles with me earlier
this month in Va beach. That's on a base of about 60 total rides since he
started. He's a bit of a 'fussy' person, complaining about leg pain and
stuff, but not so much recently, and he had zero complaints after the ride.
In fact it wasn't even a big deal to him.

If I had to pick a physical 'barrier', I'd say excess body weight and maybe
getting your system tuned so you get over the 'cramping' that can occue.
That's the main reasons I'm targetting it for Oct-ish. I plan to be about
20lbs lighter by then. I'm already feeling the 'big engine/small(er) body'
thing happening since losing the 40lbs since end of Feb. this year!

But who knows, since I'm heading back to the beach on July 17th, mebbe
we'll get psyched watching the TDF and gopher it!? ;-p

-Badger

On 11 Jun 2004 23:43:59 -0700, (Jonathan Quist) wrote:


When I do a century, I mentally break it down into four 25 mile
segments, and I don't think beyond the current segment. 25 miles goes
by fairly quickly, and I find that it doesn't seem too long before I'm
finishing the third segment, and have only 25 miles left to go. If
boredom is a problem for you on long rides, see if you can find a
friend who rides at a similar pace (a club is a good source for riding
friends) who can ride at least part of the way. Also, if you can
select a visually interesting route that you aren't really familiar
with, it might make it more interesting. Should be lots of visual
stimulation in Virginia Beach, though! :-) Also see if you can select
your route so that there are minimal stops and starts, such as traffic
lights, cross streets, etc. The constant stopping and restarting can
really wear you down after a while.

The important thing is to condition your legs to spin for many hours
at a time, and short rides of less than 15 miles or so aren't really
going to help very much. If you can do a couple rides a week in the 30
to 40 mile range, it will help a lot, along with at least one day a
week off the bike for recovery. Your muscles get stronger on the days
that you rest, not the days that you ride.

Have fun!

Jonathan Quist

Hey JQ, good thoughts. Since I'm on a 'streak' I probably won't take any
days off, but I can certainly schedule an 'easy' day. I'm now doing 30
miles per day, a couple times a week, and the other days I'll do that much
total, but broken down into 15 mile segments about 4 hours apart.

I'm planning to look into group rides, and I'll see if I can find a loop in
Va beach that has less stopping and starting. For those that might be
interested, I got the '135 miles of bike trails' off of a map that is
available in the ranger station at Seashore Natn'l Park. THey have one on
the wall, and the folder is at the desk (it's blueish on the cover - note
these are not continuous miles, but broken up and coded as to type of
route.

I plan to do at least one half-century a month (July, Aug), and a metric
century in Sept. I'd like to do the metric without stopping (except to swap
out water and hit the rest-room, etc.)

Hey, cool name! Jonny Quist... ;-p

-B

On 11 Jun 2004 23:43:59 -0700, (Jonathan Quist) wrote:

When I do a century, I mentally break it down into four 25 mile
segments, and I don't think beyond the current segment. 25 miles goes
by fairly quickly, and I find that it doesn't seem too long before I'm
finishing the third segment, and have only 25 miles left to go.

Ya know I just realized something - this is a great tip! But not only on
long rides - it also can help on shorter rides, wrt the boredom, etc.

I think it will be a lot easier to get those 40 milers if I don't think of
it as one long ride, but perhaps as three 13 milers (I have a 13 mile
loop).

It's amazing how it can be a stumper to start out thinking 'jeeze the
schedule says I'm riding 25 miles today for the third day in a row -
blech', but when I get to the 20 mile point I'm thinking 'wow, were did the
time (and the miles) go?'.

One thing that is neat also is if you have a 'problem' you're trying to
solve. I've actually ridden 10 miles at a stretch and have no memory of it
at all, b/c, although I was 'there' enough to navigate, my mind was so
wrapped up in the problem solving that it fugued.

Uh, certainly this happens driving, but it was funny the first time it
happened on the bike, b/c I try to remember and record my split times. Well
I pulled up Excel after the ride and realized I had no freakin' idea what
my splits were and couldn't even remember the ride. I had to go down and
check the bike computer to make sure I hadn't dreamed it, haha.

-B

Badger_South wrote:
Thanks for relating your experience. If you don't mind my asking, where did
you tour? Road condition - flat, gentle rolling, etc.?

minneapolis to cheyenne, wy to pueblo, co to missoula to the oregon coast
to seattle and back down to los angeles. soo, flat, rolling and mountainous,
highways and the occassional interstate (several hundred miles of interstate).
if you think mountains are bad wait until you hit the 20-30 mph headwinds of
south dakota. no joke. riding in the mountains is actually quite fun ..
--
david reuteler

Badger_South wrote:
:: On 12 Jun 2004 04:52:19 GMT, David Reuteler
:: wrote:
::
::: Badger_South wrote:
:::: I've read stories (admittedly of younger riders) only training for
:::: a year to do some touring and then actually get in shape during
:::: the tour. Of course they were riding with a group and stuff.
:::
::: fwiw, i did a 3 month solo tour of 85 miles/day on a 2.5 year base
::: of mostly commuting (before that i'd taken a few years off cycling)
::: ~ 25-34 miles/day 3 to 5 days/week 8 months of the year. about a
::: month before i left i did
::: two longer rides (62 and 75 miles) and felt okay afterwards (the
::: first one taught me to hydrate, btw .. i got minor flu like
::: symptoms) so i hit the road. the first week felt good and it only
::: got better from there.
:::
::: if you're ready it's my belief you know it. the leap from 30 to 85
::: or even 100 isn't the hard part. the hard part is from 0 or 10 to
::: 30 *DAILY*. my routine was pretty consistent .. up at the crack of
::: 10am (i'm a night person), eat a big breakfast, ride 40 miles or
::: so, eat a big lunch and ride another 30 or so, eat an afternoon
::: snack and ride the remainder, then eat a big dinner. eat, eat, eat
::: and i still lost 15 pounds.
:::
::: as long as you're riding 30 or so miles daily the hump is probably
::: much more mental than physical.
::
:: Thanks for relating your experience. If you don't mind my asking,
:: where did you tour? Road condition - flat, gentle rolling, etc.?
::
:: As to the mental vs physical, yeah I think that's the main issue.
::
:: My brother, 155lbs, and 5'6" has only been riding (and somewhat
:: sporadically at that) since March on a MTB rode 31 miles with me
:: earlier
:: this month in Va beach. That's on a base of about 60 total rides
:: since he started. He's a bit of a 'fussy' person, complaining about
:: leg pain and
:: stuff, but not so much recently, and he had zero complaints after
:: the ride.
:: In fact it wasn't even a big deal to him.
::
:: If I had to pick a physical 'barrier', I'd say excess body weight
:: and maybe getting your system tuned so you get over the 'cramping'
:: that can occue. That's the main reasons I'm targetting it for
:: Oct-ish. I plan to be about 20lbs lighter by then. I'm already
:: feeling the 'big engine/small(er) body' thing happening since losing
:: the 40lbs since end of Feb. this year!

You can definitely be ready by october. I plan to do a century (I'm
predicting 8 hours) around then too.

Being 20 lbs lighter will make a HUGE difference, too. How much do yo weigh
now?

::
:: But who knows, since I'm heading back to the beach on July 17th,
:: mebbe
:: we'll get psyched watching the TDF and gopher it!? ;-p

Me too!
::
:: -Badger