Ganging Up On Poor Tyler

"L. Seer" wrote in message
om...
Well, if he is suspended and officially deemed a doper, it's likely
that he's been doping the whole time, and doping significantly
enhanced those bigger pay-checks he's already received and gave him
the trophies he's won. It seems like there should be some kind of
penalty for doping offenses which involves past pay. Something stuck
in the UCI rules which says you are fined a large percentage of your
contracts from the previous four years (or something like that).
Otherwise, what do dopers risk by doping if they would never have made
much money in the first place? Heck, when they decided to dope, their
image certainly wasn't deemed to be as important as their future
contract values and/or the fame of winning some trophy. Maybe the UCI
or someone else will start to make these guys pay financially. The
small potential for shame and the loss of future income doesn't cut it
as a deterent given the slim chances of getting caught and the
enhanced contracts up to getting busted.

In theory an employer, sponsor or promoter who could prove fraud based on
the representation that a rider was clean when in fact the rider was not,
could recover. As a practical matter, such a legal action would be a time
consumng, probable wast of time. If the team or sponsor knew of the doping,
then there was no fraud.

Maybe if Tyler is suspended, somebody will figure out a way to make
him pay financially for the gains he has made.

Maybe he could form an
anti-drug foundation with Prentis Steffen and work with Lemond's junior
development team. ;-)

If they all came clean and rode clean, all we'd have to talk about would
be
the racing. Hit it Louie--"I see trees of green...........What a
wonderful
world."

On 23 Oct 2004 15:00:04 -0700, (L. Seer) wrote:

Maybe if Tyler is suspended, somebody will figure out a way to make
him pay financially for the gains he has made.

What about that Richard Virenque? Pretty good hill climber, eh?

Oddly, my July '04 issue of Cycle Sport, with its nice little sidebar on
him only says:

"came closest of any French Rider to winning the TdF since...Fignon...'89".

Nothing about a 'dotty past' as one OLN commentator put it.

Disproportionate response, much?

-B

Badger South wrote in message . ..
On 23 Oct 2004 15:00:04 -0700, (L. Seer) wrote:

Maybe if Tyler is suspended, somebody will figure out a way to make
him pay financially for the gains he has made.

What about that Richard Virenque? Pretty good hill climber, eh?

That guy sounded a lot like Tyler does now, until RV cracked.

Oddly, my July '04 issue of Cycle Sport, with its nice little sidebar on
him only says:

"came closest of any French Rider to winning the TdF since...Fignon...'89".

Nothing about a 'dotty past' as one OLN commentator put it.

Disproportionate response, much?

-B

Those commentators are part of the problem even though they are put in
an odd spot. Phil Ligget railing on Millar one day and then praising
Dicky V the next was too much for me.

Like I said above, the UCI has not created any real deterence.

Who's having the disproportionate response?

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message link.net...
"L. Seer" wrote in message
om...
Well, if he is suspended and officially deemed a doper, it's likely
that he's been doping the whole time, and doping significantly
enhanced those bigger pay-checks he's already received and gave him
the trophies he's won. It seems like there should be some kind of
penalty for doping offenses which involves past pay. Something stuck
in the UCI rules which says you are fined a large percentage of your
contracts from the previous four years (or something like that).
Otherwise, what do dopers risk by doping if they would never have made
much money in the first place? Heck, when they decided to dope, their
image certainly wasn't deemed to be as important as their future
contract values and/or the fame of winning some trophy. Maybe the UCI
or someone else will start to make these guys pay financially. The
small potential for shame and the loss of future income doesn't cut it
as a deterent given the slim chances of getting caught and the
enhanced contracts up to getting busted.

In theory an employer, sponsor or promoter who could prove fraud based on
the representation that a rider was clean when in fact the rider was not,
could recover. As a practical matter, such a legal action would be a time
consumng, probable wast of time. If the team or sponsor knew of the doping,
then there was no fraud.

There is an aspect to this of nobody being willing to step up to the
plate. The UCI won't create a fine structure to deal with the
financial side of doping, sponsors aren't willing (like you say) to
actively protect themselves from fraud, and the criminal justice
system has more important things to worry about. You'd think that a
company like Phonak (et all) would try to recoup their investment in
Tyler if he is sanctioned, but it kind of sounds like they are going
to foot some of the bill for his challenge. I bet most sponsors/teams
have doping clauses in their contracts which would enable them to go
after sanctioned athletes pretty easily.

Perhaps fans should start being more vocal about their opposition to
the rehiring of dopers or boycotting the sponsors of sanctioned
dopers? That is sticky due to all the extremely minor infractions
which could be accidental such as those which appear to be supplement
related, but boycotting could be somewhat effective.

Significant UCI fines would be a sure way to raise the costs of
doping.

B. Lafferty wrote:

I agree that the fans would not mind. They might even enjoy it more.
As a
coffee addict, I'd let them have as much caffeine as they like, as
long as
it came in the form of coffee or espresso.




Dumbass -



Caffeine is no different than the other drugs. One gets physically
dependent, withdrawal symptoms, cravings, etc.

Let me say again, that as long as drug use it tolerated to some extent
in society in general, it will also be be tolerated to some extent in
sports.



K. Gringioni.

Badger South wrote:
I mean would bike racing ultimately be the same to watch? Certainly it
would be feel different to them. They rode the Tour before drugs

What makes you think this?

B. Lafferty wrote:
IMO, the racing would be more like it was late 1980s and before. [...]
They would suffer more in the mountains and climb the mountains at
reduced speeds with fewer rider together as the cols progressed on
mountain stages. Average speeds for races would drop by 2 or 3 km
per hour.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf.png

In article .com,
"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote:

B. Lafferty wrote:

I agree that the fans would not mind. They might even enjoy it more.
As a
coffee addict, I'd let them have as much caffeine as they like, as
long as
it came in the form of coffee or espresso.




Dumbass -



Caffeine is no different than the other drugs. One gets physically
dependent, withdrawal symptoms, cravings, etc.

Let me say again, that as long as drug use it tolerated to some extent
in society in general, it will also be be tolerated to some extent in
sports.



K. Gringioni.

I think that, under the societal circumstances you mention, then perhaps
it *should* also be be tolerated to some extent in sports.

--
tanx,
Howard

"It looks like the squirrel's been showing everybody
where he keeps his nuts."

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
oups.com...

B. Lafferty wrote:

I agree that the fans would not mind. They might even enjoy it more.
As a
coffee addict, I'd let them have as much caffeine as they like, as
long as
it came in the form of coffee or espresso.




Dumbass -



Caffeine is no different than the other drugs. One gets physically
dependent, withdrawal symptoms, cravings, etc.

Let me say again, that as long as drug use it tolerated to some extent
in society in general, it will also be be tolerated to some extent in
sports.

You're humor impaired life must be difficult. I feel your pain.

Thanks!

"Robert Chung" wrote in message
...
B. Lafferty wrote:
IMO, the racing would be more like it was late 1980s and before. [...]
They would suffer more in the mountains and climb the mountains at
reduced speeds with fewer rider together as the cols progressed on
mountain stages. Average speeds for races would drop by 2 or 3 km
per hour.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf.png