Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

wrote:

Well, if you were going 75 rpm in your 53x11
high gear, then you were going 28.5 mph.

Finally an opportunity to use my Lisp
program [1]. I get ~45.5 km/h which seems to be
consistent with your 28.5 mph, only slightly
less (~28 mph).

;; (print-roll-outs '(53) '(11) 622 23)

;; BSD: 622 mm
;; ti 23 mm
;; wheel: 622 + 2*23 = 668 mm
;; chainrings: 53T
;; sprockets: 11T
;; roll-out = chainring/sprocket * wheel
;;
;; chainring (T) sprocket (T) roll-out (mm)
;;
;; 53 11 10111

;; (* (/ (/ (* 75 10111) 1000.0) 1000.0) 60)
;; 45.499500000000005 km/h


[1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/emacs-init/bike.el

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 5:52:47 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Getting into the 50/11 is no big deal in any area with hills. I could live without it, sure, but it does have a function ...

I don't see the attraction or the function. At just 100 rpm, it's 36 mph. Aero
drag is really high at that speed. Non-racers (and even most racers) can't
put out enough power to maintain that for a more than a short while on anything
near a flat road. And on a downhill you're better off tucking in and coasting.

In other words, on a downhill the power lost to air drag of whirling legs
and cranks would be greater than the power put into the pedals. So it's
far more sensible to coast.

Instead of thinking about getting a high gear ratio, I'd think about improving
the aero tuck while maintaining stability.

- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 16:51:52 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 5:52:47 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Getting into the 50/11 is no big deal in any area with hills. I could live without it, sure, but it does have a function ...

I don't see the attraction or the function. At just 100 rpm, it's 36 mph. Aero
drag is really high at that speed. Non-racers (and even most racers) can't
put out enough power to maintain that for a more than a short while on anything
near a flat road. And on a downhill you're better off tucking in and coasting.

Assuming you're a little guy like me (130 lbs.) it requires 540 watts
to maintain 36 mph on the level.

see https://www.exploratorium.edu/cyclin...dynamics1.html

In other words, on a downhill the power lost to air drag of whirling legs
and cranks would be greater than the power put into the pedals. So it's
far more sensible to coast.

Instead of thinking about getting a high gear ratio, I'd think about improving
the aero tuck while maintaining stability.

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 9:03:27 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 10:18:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 12:48:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 1:01:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 1:55 PM, wrote:
In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting?

Well, 53/14 at a mere 100 rpm is 30 mph, not 24-25. And that's fine with
me.


Yep. 29.8 mph in 53x14 at 100 rpm. But professional Tour de France riders like 99.9% of all bicyclists with 50x11 and 53x11 high gears need to ride 36 mph for 125 miles. And sprint 45 mph when they get to the finish line. As for me, I had a hard time chugging along in the 53x16-17 this morning at a mere 20 mph. For just a couple miles. My poor cycle computer rarely sees 30 mph. A shame.

That is my point. You're climbing at maybe 50 rpm and then saying you can then spin out at 100 rpm is a little imaginary. Yesterday I was riding hard away with a tailwind and I don't think I hit 75 rpm.

Well, if you were going 75 rpm in your 53x11 high gear, then you were going 28.5 mph. For about 99.999999999999% of the bicyclists on the earth, that is moving pretty darn fast. And if you were spinning out at 100 rpm (HaHa), you would be going 38.0 mph. Tour de France speeds. I find it down right amazing how many internet bicyclists can ride as fast or faster than the Tour de France racers. Amazing.

Yes I also find that amazing and the ease people descending at speeds of 80-100 km/hr I find also amazing. 'I'm forced to have a 53/11', WTF? I ride most of the time alone on weekdays on flat terrain. My average speed over 80-100 km is around 31-33 km/hr. On my aero bike I start with a 52/18 gear (speed around 30-31 km/hr at 85 rpm) and after a warm up of 5 km I change gear to 52/17 (speed around 32-33 km/hr at 85 rpm). When I'm pushing on Strava segments I use a 52/16 or 52/15 gear. At 95 rpm (a higher cadence I find unpleasant) that is 41-42 km/hr. Still have higher gears left I almost never use (52/14-13-12). During grouprides where you can draft or with fierce tailwinds it is a different story but that is not the norm for my choice of gearing. So a cassette with a 11-12 sprocket leaving out the 16 and/or 18 is a not an option for me. Looking at the cassettes Campy offer for their 12 speed gruppo: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 t and 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32 t, there is no cassette I want. If they offered a 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-22-25-28-32-34 cassette it would be the ultimate cassette for me and might consider buying their 12 speed gruppo. I could use that cassette on flat terrain here and can use it to climb the Zoncolan or the Mortirolo. YMMV.

Lou

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 1:06:51 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 12:03:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 10:18:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 12:48:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 1:01:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 1:55 PM, wrote:
In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting?

Well, 53/14 at a mere 100 rpm is 30 mph, not 24-25. And that's fine with
me.


Yep. 29.8 mph in 53x14 at 100 rpm. But professional Tour de France riders like 99.9% of all bicyclists with 50x11 and 53x11 high gears need to ride 36 mph for 125 miles. And sprint 45 mph when they get to the finish line. As for me, I had a hard time chugging along in the 53x16-17 this morning at a mere 20 mph. For just a couple miles. My poor cycle computer rarely sees 30 mph. A shame.

That is my point. You're climbing at maybe 50 rpm and then saying you can then spin out at 100 rpm is a little imaginary. Yesterday I was riding hard away with a tailwind and I don't think I hit 75 rpm.

Well, if you were going 75 rpm in your 53x11 high gear, then you were going 28.5 mph. For about 99.999999999999% of the bicyclists on the earth, that is moving pretty darn fast. And if you were spinning out at 100 rpm (HaHa), you would be going 38.0 mph. Tour de France speeds. I find it down right amazing how many internet bicyclists can ride as fast or faster than the Tour de France racers. Amazing.

That wasn't on flat ground - that was on a 7% downgrade with a tailwind.. And my heavy friend was pulling away from me coasting. While I HAVE done 28 mph over several miles on the flats I haven't done that for a couple of years. At that time I was also sprinting through yellow lights at 36 mph so I guess I CAN spin pretty fast but not for very long.

Getting into the 50/11 is no big deal in any area with hills. I could live without it, sure, but it does have a function -- and it is usable in combination with a 34 on my bikes. No terrible cross-chaining.

-- Jay Beattie.

The hatred I have for this foolish 50-34 compact fashion is the shifting between chainrings. You have to drop or increase about 4-5 cogs when going from the 50 to 34 or opposite. With my MANly 53-42 rings, I just shift up or down one cog.

On 8/28/2018 11:09 PM, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 4:52:47 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 1:06:51 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 12:03:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 10:18:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 12:48:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 1:01:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 1:55 PM, wrote:
In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting?

Well, 53/14 at a mere 100 rpm is 30 mph, not 24-25. And that's fine with
me.


Yep. 29.8 mph in 53x14 at 100 rpm. But professional Tour de France riders like 99.9% of all bicyclists with 50x11 and 53x11 high gears need to ride 36 mph for 125 miles. And sprint 45 mph when they get to the finish line. As for me, I had a hard time chugging along in the 53x16-17 this morning at a mere 20 mph. For just a couple miles. My poor cycle computer rarely sees 30 mph. A shame.

That is my point. You're climbing at maybe 50 rpm and then saying you can then spin out at 100 rpm is a little imaginary. Yesterday I was riding hard away with a tailwind and I don't think I hit 75 rpm.

Well, if you were going 75 rpm in your 53x11 high gear, then you were going 28.5 mph. For about 99.999999999999% of the bicyclists on the earth, that is moving pretty darn fast. And if you were spinning out at 100 rpm (HaHa), you would be going 38.0 mph. Tour de France speeds. I find it down right amazing how many internet bicyclists can ride as fast or faster than the Tour de France racers. Amazing.

That wasn't on flat ground - that was on a 7% downgrade with a tailwind. And my heavy friend was pulling away from me coasting. While I HAVE done 28 mph over several miles on the flats I haven't done that for a couple of years. At that time I was also sprinting through yellow lights at 36 mph so I guess I CAN spin pretty fast but not for very long.

Getting into the 50/11 is no big deal in any area with hills. I could live without it, sure, but it does have a function -- and it is usable in combination with a 34 on my bikes. No terrible cross-chaining.

-- Jay Beattie.

The hatred I have for this foolish 50-34 compact fashion is the shifting between chainrings. You have to drop or increase about 4-5 cogs when going from the 50 to 34 or opposite. With my MANly 53-42 rings, I just shift up or down one cog.

Hah! With my even MANlier 52-47 rings, I don't shift the rear at all! :-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 4:51:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 5:52:47 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Getting into the 50/11 is no big deal in any area with hills. I could live without it, sure, but it does have a function ...

I don't see the attraction or the function. At just 100 rpm, it's 36 mph. Aero
drag is really high at that speed. Non-racers (and even most racers) can't
put out enough power to maintain that for a more than a short while on anything
near a flat road. And on a downhill you're better off tucking in and coasting.

That's not true. There are a lot of grades where you can easily spin 50/11 and exceed the speed of merely coasting. OTOH, I don't push a 50/11 very often on flat land -- minus a draft or a tailwind.


In other words, on a downhill the power lost to air drag of whirling legs
and cranks would be greater than the power put into the pedals. So it's
far more sensible to coast.

Instead of thinking about getting a high gear ratio, I'd think about improving
the aero tuck while maintaining stability.

And yet, I was riding a 50/11 on the way to work this morning on a mild downhill. It was a comfortable probably 80 RPM. 30-35mph. Who knows. I have no instrumentation on my bike. I was going way faster than just coasting, sitting on my son's wheel and staying ahead of traffic. He https://tinyurl.com/y8gzmbck Another motor pace to work.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 4:51:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 5:52:47 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Getting into the 50/11 is no big deal in any area with hills. I could live without it, sure, but it does have a function ...

I don't see the attraction or the function. At just 100 rpm, it's 36 mph. Aero
drag is really high at that speed. Non-racers (and even most racers) can't
put out enough power to maintain that for a more than a short while on anything
near a flat road. And on a downhill you're better off tucking in and coasting.

In other words, on a downhill the power lost to air drag of whirling legs
and cranks would be greater than the power put into the pedals. So it's
far more sensible to coast.

Instead of thinking about getting a high gear ratio, I'd think about improving
the aero tuck while maintaining stability.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank, I was riding pretty hard yesterday and I don't believe I could reach 100 rpm. Now I don't have a cadence counter but simply counting strokes and estimating time showed me I was a lot closer to 75 rpm.

On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 1:25:54 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 9:03:27 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 10:18:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 12:48:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 1:01:10 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 1:55 PM, wrote:
In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting?

Well, 53/14 at a mere 100 rpm is 30 mph, not 24-25. And that's fine with
me.


Yep. 29.8 mph in 53x14 at 100 rpm. But professional Tour de France riders like 99.9% of all bicyclists with 50x11 and 53x11 high gears need to ride 36 mph for 125 miles. And sprint 45 mph when they get to the finish line. As for me, I had a hard time chugging along in the 53x16-17 this morning at a mere 20 mph. For just a couple miles. My poor cycle computer rarely sees 30 mph. A shame.

That is my point. You're climbing at maybe 50 rpm and then saying you can then spin out at 100 rpm is a little imaginary. Yesterday I was riding hard away with a tailwind and I don't think I hit 75 rpm.

Well, if you were going 75 rpm in your 53x11 high gear, then you were going 28.5 mph. For about 99.999999999999% of the bicyclists on the earth, that is moving pretty darn fast. And if you were spinning out at 100 rpm (HaHa), you would be going 38.0 mph. Tour de France speeds. I find it down right amazing how many internet bicyclists can ride as fast or faster than the Tour de France racers. Amazing.

Yes I also find that amazing and the ease people descending at speeds of 80-100 km/hr I find also amazing. 'I'm forced to have a 53/11', WTF? I ride most of the time alone on weekdays on flat terrain. My average speed over 80-100 km is around 31-33 km/hr. On my aero bike I start with a 52/18 gear (speed around 30-31 km/hr at 85 rpm) and after a warm up of 5 km I change gear to 52/17 (speed around 32-33 km/hr at 85 rpm). When I'm pushing on Strava segments I use a 52/16 or 52/15 gear. At 95 rpm (a higher cadence I find unpleasant) that is 41-42 km/hr. Still have higher gears left I almost never use (52/14-13-12). During grouprides where you can draft or with fierce tailwinds it is a different story but that is not the norm for my choice of gearing. So a cassette with a 11-12 sprocket leaving out the 16 and/or 18 is a not an option for me. Looking at the cassettes Campy offer for their 12 speed gruppo: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 t and 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32 t, there is no cassette I want. If they offered a 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-22-25-28-32-34 cassette it would be the ultimate cassette for me and might consider buying their 12 speed gruppo. I could use that cassette on flat terrain here and can use it to climb the Zoncolan or the Mortirolo. YMMV.

Lou

That sounds a lot more like my experience as well. I was climbing a 7% grade in a 34-23 which impressed the hell out of me.

On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 10:29:18 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 4:51:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 5:52:47 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Getting into the 50/11 is no big deal in any area with hills. I could live without it, sure, but it does have a function ...

I don't see the attraction or the function. At just 100 rpm, it's 36 mph. Aero
drag is really high at that speed. Non-racers (and even most racers) can't
put out enough power to maintain that for a more than a short while on anything
near a flat road. And on a downhill you're better off tucking in and coasting.

That's not true. There are a lot of grades where you can easily spin 50/11 and exceed the speed of merely coasting. OTOH, I don't push a 50/11 very often on flat land -- minus a draft or a tailwind.


In other words, on a downhill the power lost to air drag of whirling legs
and cranks would be greater than the power put into the pedals. So it's
far more sensible to coast.

Instead of thinking about getting a high gear ratio, I'd think about improving
the aero tuck while maintaining stability.

And yet, I was riding a 50/11 on the way to work this morning on a mild downhill. It was a comfortable probably 80 RPM. 30-35mph. Who knows. I have no instrumentation on my bike. I was going way faster than just coasting, sitting on my son's wheel and staying ahead of traffic. He https://tinyurl.com/y8gzmbck Another motor pace to work.

-- Jay Beattie.

I went for a ride with a friend last Sunday and I was spun out on my 50/11 and he COASTED by me so fast I had to wonder if he had gone electric.