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rust inside the frame how to treat it



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 29th 05, 01:11 PM
Doug Huffman
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Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

JB's suggestion, and its results, sound like a 'free iron' test that I used
to do as a late step in accepting high-tech stainless steel parts. Wash the
part to remove mfgr's preservatives, wrap in a seawater soaked towel and
after twenty-four hours wipe it with an inspection cloth. The amount of
color on the cloth was an indication of how much iron was available in the
alloy and how long it would last in its intended environment. And this was
'stainless steel', wonder how surface rust effects 4130 alloy?


wrote in message
...

To test the value of this advice, I suggest you take a clean piece of
steel, for instance a tinned can with the tin steel wooled off, an
spray some LPS-3 or WD-40 on it before laying it out in the morning
dew for a few days.

These lubricants do not displace water but rather emulsify with it.
The inside of a frame, as I mentioned, is not at hazard from moisture
unless you work at it.

WD-40 as Gore-tex are religious icons without merit. They live
entirely on faith. Let's tie and solder spokes again as the ancients
did religiously... without merit. Also beware, smooth tread bicycle
tires will aquaplane and cause crashes on wet roads... and many more.

Jobst Brandt



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  #12  
Old July 29th 05, 01:50 PM
RonSonic
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Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 02:40:16 GMT, wrote:

Jim Adney writes:

is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or
slow down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you
fill up the insides with. The frame is steel.


I like LPS-3. You don't fill the frame with it. Just let it coat
everything. Destruction of a frame by rust is extremely rare, but
it does occasionally happen.


To test the value of this advice, I suggest you take a clean piece of
steel, for instance a tinned can with the tin steel wooled off, an
spray some LPS-3 or WD-40 on it before laying it out in the morning
dew for a few days.

These lubricants do not displace water but rather emulsify with it.
The inside of a frame, as I mentioned, is not at hazard from moisture
unless you work at it.

WD-40 as Gore-tex are religious icons without merit. They live
entirely on faith. Let's tie and solder spokes again as the ancients
did religiously... without merit. Also beware, smooth tread bicycle
tires will aquaplane and cause crashes on wet roads... and many more.


Ya know WD-40 is the worst thing on earth - except for having your ferrous stuff
rusted and wet and unoiled. I am not a fan of the stuff I use it rarely and on
few things, but it does what it does.

I'll spray damn near everything on my bike with it when I come in from a
thunderstorm. This happens a LOT to me lately. Yes it would be best to wash and
towel dry. Yeah, like that's going to happen every time all the time. I don't
know about your steel wooled tin can, which sounds like a worst case corrosion
test, but I know I've got a cleaner, less rusted drivetrain with a post-drench
WD-40ing than without. I know it is then a lot easier to clean and lube all that
stuff properly when I get a chance.

No, I don't recommend the stuff as a regular lubricant or for potentiometers or
other electronic contacts, but it has it's place. There are other aerosol
packaged products that may work as well or better. LPS is very good. But those
two are handy and work.

Ron
I also own vice-grips




  #13  
Old July 29th 05, 02:04 PM
Bruce Gilbert
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Default rust inside the frame how to treat it


wrote
WD-40 as Gore-tex are religious icons without merit. They live
entirely on faith. Let's tie and solder spokes again as the ancients
did religiously... without merit. Also beware, smooth tread bicycle
tires will aquaplane and cause crashes on wet roads... and many more.

Jobst Brandt


You are right, as usual. One thing I have always wanted to do with this
group is to compile the RBT Book of Myths. We should all make some sort of a
list of the best "Whoppers of the Bike Business", you know. all of the
really amazing product claims, false methods, unworkable solutions, or just
plain dumb stuff that gets propagated to cyclists. It would be a grand
project... real Nobel Prize level stuff. Or, at least worthy of a few good
laughs.

Bruce


  #14  
Old July 29th 05, 02:10 PM
Bruce Gilbert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

What about using something like Ospho to treat the inside of steel frames?
It is a metal prep that has phosphoric acid in it. I believe Iron phosphate
is formed and that is the surface protection. All you need to do is to wash
it off when the reaction has completed.

We used to treat SCUBA tanks with this stuff and it seemed to work really
well for other marine applications. You just have to be careful with painted
surfaces...

Bruce


"RonSonic" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 02:40:16 GMT, wrote:

Jim Adney writes:

is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or
slow down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you
fill up the insides with. The frame is steel.


I like LPS-3. You don't fill the frame with it. Just let it coat
everything. Destruction of a frame by rust is extremely rare, but
it does occasionally happen.


To test the value of this advice, I suggest you take a clean piece of
steel, for instance a tinned can with the tin steel wooled off, an
spray some LPS-3 or WD-40 on it before laying it out in the morning
dew for a few days.

These lubricants do not displace water but rather emulsify with it.
The inside of a frame, as I mentioned, is not at hazard from moisture
unless you work at it.

WD-40 as Gore-tex are religious icons without merit. They live
entirely on faith. Let's tie and solder spokes again as the ancients
did religiously... without merit. Also beware, smooth tread bicycle
tires will aquaplane and cause crashes on wet roads... and many more.


Ya know WD-40 is the worst thing on earth - except for having your ferrous

stuff
rusted and wet and unoiled. I am not a fan of the stuff I use it rarely

and on
few things, but it does what it does.

I'll spray damn near everything on my bike with it when I come in from a
thunderstorm. This happens a LOT to me lately. Yes it would be best to

wash and
towel dry. Yeah, like that's going to happen every time all the time. I

don't
know about your steel wooled tin can, which sounds like a worst case

corrosion
test, but I know I've got a cleaner, less rusted drivetrain with a

post-drench
WD-40ing than without. I know it is then a lot easier to clean and lube

all that
stuff properly when I get a chance.

No, I don't recommend the stuff as a regular lubricant or for

potentiometers or
other electronic contacts, but it has it's place. There are other aerosol
packaged products that may work as well or better. LPS is very good. But

those
two are handy and work.

Ron
I also own vice-grips






  #15  
Old July 29th 05, 02:13 PM
Ron Hardin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

Spray some zinc chromate in there and call it good.

I noticed that steel aircraft frames need respraying on the outside
but they only have drain holes at the low points as a nod to interior
rusting. Apparently it's not a big cause of problems.

--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
  #16  
Old July 29th 05, 03:51 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

Ron Sonic writes:

Ya know WD-40 is the worst thing on earth - except for having your
ferrous stuff rusted and wet and unoiled. I am not a fan of the
stuff I use it rarely and on few things, but it does what it does.


"but it does what it does" can you expand on that?

I'll spray damn near everything on my bike with it when I come in
from a thunderstorm. This happens a LOT to me lately. Yes it would
be best to wash and towel dry. Yeah, like that's going to happen
every time all the time. I don't know about your steel wooled tin
can, which sounds like a worst case corrosion test, but I know I've
got a cleaner, less rusted drivetrain with a post-drench WD-40ing
than without. I know it is then a lot easier to clean and lube all
that stuff properly when I get a chance.


That sounds much like tossing salt over one's shoulder. Can you
explain what your WD-40 treatment does? Having ridden in all sorts of
weather over many years without the use of ointments like WD-40 or
Marvel Mystery Oil with no visible ill effects, I am not convinced of
any positive effect of these emollients.

No, I don't recommend the stuff as a regular lubricant or for
potentiometers or other electronic contacts, but it has it's
place. There are other aerosol packaged products that may work as
well or better. LPS is very good. But those two are handy and work.


I suppose you read about the federal study that showed: "Echinacea has
no effect on colds" after it has been touted as the WD-40 of the
dietary supplement fans for years. Another urban legend bites the
dust. When will mystery oils follow suit?

I also own vice-grips.


I don't know what your fetish has to do with bicycle lubricants, but
maybe you mean "Vise-Grips":

http://tinyurl.com/8zcm6

Jobst Brandt
  #17  
Old July 29th 05, 03:58 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

Bruce Gilbert writes:

They live entirely on faith. Let's tie and solder spokes again as
the ancients did religiously... without merit. Also beware, smooth
tread bicycle tires will aquaplane and cause crashes on wet
roads... and many more.


You are right, as usual. One thing I have always wanted to do with
this group is to compile the RBT Book of Myths. We should all make
some sort of a list of the best "Whoppers of the Bike Business", you
know, all of the really amazing product claims, false methods,
unworkable solutions, or just plain dumb stuff that gets propagated
to cyclists. It would be a grand project... real Nobel Prize level
stuff. Or, at least worthy of a few good laughs.


Well, I don't let some of these subjects slip idly by forever. Some of
that is available in Sheldon's generous space he has made available
for an FAQ, a less assertive name for such subjects:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

.... many are subjects that fit the description you cite.

Jobst Brandt
  #18  
Old July 29th 05, 04:05 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

Impressive site-test it!! And take a piece of lightly rust pitted steel
and wash only with thinner. Let dry in sun. apply thinned linseed and
let dry. DRY! Paint with rusto. Brush off in two years to check it out.

Linseed, as kerosene but not gore-tex as far as I, smells bad but
hasn’t found a commercial deodorized state yet-well you might ask
what about California?-ask the wd-40 users of deo kero when passing
thru eldorado
Linseed doesn’t just spray on, it attracts dirt like a wooly mammoth,
now OBVIOUSLY boeing is not gonna-and it molds! But inside a sealed
bike frame or in a renewable(brush off) area linseed works ok.like
rusto!

The LPS-3, that adney sprays into YOUR frame before going to lunch with
boeing staff, is designed for commercial apps-remains to be seen as
tested that this is better for private apps

http://www.lpslabs.com/Products/CorrosionInh/Lps3.asp


Approved by Agriculture Canada for use in food
processing plants-and it doesn’t caws peanut seizures either!
 Nonstaining
 Easily removed with LPS degreasers
 Safe on most surfaces-this is good, I was gonna spray it on my gums

Why are Aviation OEM approvals important? Gee I dunno why?
Because!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
aviation approvals verify and confirm that the chemical products being
used on the aircraft or aircraft components
will not harm will not harm will not harm will not harm
the metal surface, paint, sealants, rubber components or any other
material the product comes in contact with.
Oh good! slip that one past you while your voting for arnold
http://www.lpslabs.com/Products/Aviation/Avichart.asp

  #19  
Old July 29th 05, 04:46 PM
Sheldon Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default rust inside the frame how to treat it

Someone whose attribution was snipped wrote:

is there some way to treat the inside of the tubing to prevent or
slow down the rusting? I heard on this group of a spray that you
fill up the insides with. The frame is steel.


Jim Adney wrote:

I like LPS-3. You don't fill the frame with it. Just let it coat
everything. Destruction of a frame by rust is extremely rare, but
it does occasionally happen.


Jobst Brandt replied:

To test the value of this advice, I suggest you take a clean piece of
steel, for instance a tinned can with the tin steel wooled off, an
spray some LPS-3 or WD-40 on it before laying it out in the morning
dew for a few days.

These lubricants do not displace water but rather emulsify with it.
The inside of a frame, as I mentioned, is not at hazard from moisture
unless you work at it.


Jobst, I think you're confusing LPS-3 with LPS-1. LPS-1 is very WD-40
like, and about equally "useful."

LPS-3 is a much heavier, stickier product, designed specifically for
this sort of application. I think it would give excellent protection to
your de-tinned can.

It seems very similar to the Frame Saver sold in the bike industry for
this purpose.

Living here in the Norhteast where they put lots of salt on the roads in
the winter time, I believe rust is as severe a problem here as it is
anywhere. Despite that, it is VERY uncommon to see a bike frame that
has suffered actual structural damage from rust.

The bikes that do suffer are those ridden by year round commuters who
don't have enough sense to install proper fenders.

If you don't ride a LOT in salty slush, or in the ocean (I've done
this!) internal rust is not likely to be a serious problem.

Sheldon "Icky Goo" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| Promote the institution of marriage: |
| Make it available to all adults! |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 




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