I Give Up (motorists attitude)

I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
to the moon.
Her journey would involve largely a well lit and well surfaced
cycle path and canal bank or quiet streets. Would be 10 minutes
maximum. No big hills. And be less than half the time taken in her
car. And would not involve the parking problems at work she had also
complained about.
So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
for cycle use. It's not going to happen.
Iain

iarocu wrote:

I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction where the
council have installed traffic lights where they are not required
resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I learned she spent 25 minutes
in her car on a journey of 2 miles every morning. So I suggested why
not cycle. From the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling
to the moon.
Her journey would involve largely a well lit and well surfaced
cycle path and canal bank or quiet streets. Would be 10 minutes
maximum. No big hills. And be less than half the time taken in her
car. And would not involve the parking problems at work she had also
complained about.
So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well forget targets
for cycle use. It's not going to happen.
Iain

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

There is an increase in cycling but mainly of the off-raod type on
leisure car-free routes.
When talking to a County Road Safety Officer recently it was clear the
only targets he was interested in were reducing casualties. If that
meant less cyclists on the roads then so what. Cyclists could always
drive to the Sustrans type routes.
Of course the Leisure Department loves this - greater use of their
facilities, but it does not reduce the number of vehicles on the roads.
Just look at the number of vehicles that now have bikes strapped to the
back of them :-(
Indeed such activities may increase car use.
"I HAVE to have a car so I can get to the cycle route"
Just one of the many excuses.

Everytime someone drives they add to the problem. Yes, even driving to
cycling events and rallies. People drive from all over the country to
York or the New Forest then compalin about the road conditions for
cyclists. Get real.

IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more space
and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will have the advantage.
only problem is taht we may have to take to the pavements :-(

I don't think it will be too long coming.

John B

JohnB writes:

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").
Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
supply is exhausted even now.

IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more
space and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will
have the advantage. only problem is taht we may have to take to the
pavements :-(

Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
clip to my spokes.


-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"

Daniel Barlow wrote:

JohnB writes:

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I don't say *all* people, although IME it would be the vast majority of
motorists (including many who also claim to be cyclists).

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
life ......
Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though.

IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is no more
space and those of us who have not fallen into the car-culture will
have the advantage. only problem is taht we may have to take to the
pavements :-(

Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
clip to my spokes.

In days of yore a fellow barrow-boy clubmate had an "attachment" [1]
fixed the hub flange of his trike's offside wheel.

[1] I'll say no more, but it was pretty lethal to paintwork.

John B

"Daniel Barlow" wrote in message
...
JohnB writes:

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are blue in the
face but still people will drive just a few hundred yards. They*know*
you are right but they cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").
Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
supply is exhausted even now.


I agree with this. What we need is some means of making the first mile or
three of a car journey really quite awkward, to deter people from the
shorter journeys. For example, if the govt. were to introduce road tolls,
you could have a very high charge for the first few miles, (in order to
deter stupidly short journeys), after which the per mile rate would decrease
for every mile after that so you don't end up with a penalty on reasonable
car journeys.

I agree that people know that they shouldn't drive such short journeys - but
I don't think most people realise *why* they shouldn't drive such short
journeys. I think people would be much more sensible if they realised how
much it costs them to make such short journeys (as Guy points out in his one
mile pledge post), instead of just preaching to people (as most people will
simply switch off from that).

Daniel Barlow opined the following...
This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as "cyclists are
all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic and strike terror into the
hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've worked with
a few people myself who I don't expect to see on a bike ever in my
life (perhaps barring major life-shaking event of the "good morning Mr
Smith, the operation seems to have been successful; now make sure you
take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the year").

I work with some who still wouldn't. One drives either his car or a
company vehicle about 2 miles (MAX) to and from his house every day.
When I suggested that as the weather was nice, he should try cycling it;
"Oh no... You wouldn't get me on a bike!". Very few people at my work
place live more than 5 miles from work (direct) and at least one of the
ones further afield is basically on NCN1. I shall be putting up some
posters for Bike2Work next week, although I doubt that most would be
shamed into cycling.

Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since the
congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a year ago there
were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the
supply is exhausted even now.

Congestion charge is coming... Congestion charge is coming... Let's see
if there's a similar response in Edinburgh.

Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
clip to my spokes.

Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might not be a bad
idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting too close.

Jon

Reply to
Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop into my LBS
this weekend sometime and see if they've got any rotating knives I can
clip to my spokes.

Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might not be a bad
idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting too close.

As ever, Sheldon Brown has addressed the matter:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lirpa.html#bayonetz

--
Mark, UK.
We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him squeak,
We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

JohnB wrote:
Just look at the number of vehicles that now have bikes strapped to the
back of them :-(

Yeah, the mountain bike wheel sticking out from the side of one of them
seemed to come worryingly close to my head on a narrow road the other day.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

iarocu wrote:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long ....

a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few hundred
yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid school
traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the traffic,
and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but she's bought the
car so may as well use it ....

Phil Clarke wrote:
iarocu wrote:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as long
....

a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her drive into the
queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously) and queues the few
hundred yards to the school, then drives the long way home to avoid
school traffic. She cant let the little cherubs walk because of the
traffic, and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but
she's bought the car so may as well use it ....

There's many a parent around here drives a full 400 yards to take their
precious bundles to school,shameful.

Sam Salt