Bikes Running Red Lights

Nice Thread...

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have some idiot
on another bike behind me catch up and roll through the intersection.
Seriously - what's wrong with these people Now each of the
cars waiting at the red to go through the lights is likely a bit more
agitated with “those damn cyclists" and I’m left to contend with them
when the light turns green.

On a positive side I've found it somewhat therapeutic to then catch up
to my ignorant fellow cyclist, inform him of the purpose of a red light,
and leave him staring at my back tire....



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(b) or more to the point, no traffic anywhere, deserted, I'll ride thru.
(h) bunch riders consider themselves as one large vehicle, much like
when a motorist is left waiting to turn in the middle, the lights go red
then he has the right to clear the intersection.

Lots of cyclist run red lights infront of lines of motorist tho. Pretty
bad. I'm with the motorists.

GK

Andrew Swan wrote:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

soapbox
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
/soapbox

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

(b) or more to the point, no traffic anywhere, deserted, I'll ride thru.
(h) bunch riders consider themselves as one large vehicle, much like
when a motorist is left waiting to turn in the middle, the lights go red
then he has the right to clear the intersection.

Lots of cyclist run red lights infront of lines of motorist tho. Pretty
bad. I'm with the motorists.

GK

Andrew Swan wrote:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

soapbox
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
/soapbox

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

Andrew Swan wrote:
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:
(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of
(i) or not)
(j) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
soapbox My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you
ran a red was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your
money/health if you get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you.
Like it or not, 80% of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the
bell curve) will show cyclists respect and consideration in direct
proportion to the regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules.
You can't expect motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to
yourself) if you flout your obligations on the road. /soapbox
P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few
lights (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why
you can't, if you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means
we get better treatment in general? I know we are all equal road
users in the eye of the law, but the reality is when push comes
to shove, 1000kg of metal beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the
goodwill we can generate, because if it turns into a jungle, we
are the mewling baby birds on the forest floor.
P.P. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
&roo



I live in Palo Alto, Ca, USA, a.k.a., "on the peninsula". The main
artery for bikes is Foothill Expressway. Access is limited to main
streets that cross Foothill. Thus, there are more than a few lights. I
always stop at the lights. There's too much traffic to blow off a red
light. I also refrain from making a U-turn down the intersecting street
to dodge the red light. People have been killed trying that. Most of the
intersections can sense bikes in the left turn lane. Some can't. On the
ones that can't, I treat them as a stop sign when making a left turn.
Even that can get tricky when the volume of motor traffic is up.

In general, traffic is too heavy around here to run red lights. The odds
of being caught by a cop or an oncoming car are too great. It's not
worth the exposure.

Stop signs are a slightly different case. On four way stops I roll up
to the intersections slowly so as to be able to stop if I spot
something. If not, I roll into the intersection without touching the
ground with my foot. Most of the time I'm the only one at the
intersection so, why come out of the clips? When traffic is heavy or
the intersection is blind, I always stop. On two way stops where I have
the right of way, I don't assume I'm going to get it if there are cars
present or the corners are blind.

There are a few intersections on popular routes where the local
police/sheriffs hang out on weekends to site cyclists who run stop
signs. They will site cyclists and they can be rather picky about
whether touching the foot is a stop or coming to a complete stop is a
stop or hovering in the clips for a few seconds is a stop. It's cheaper
to stop with a foot flat on the ground.

Most of the drivers around here fit uder the hump in the bell curve.
Many of the drivers are cyclists themselves. It's that three sigma prat
that keeps me honest.



--
A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy. –Lord Halifax

--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Andrew Swan wrote:
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:
(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of
(i) or not)
(j) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
soapbox My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you
ran a red was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your
money/health if you get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you.
Like it or not, 80% of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the
bell curve) will show cyclists respect and consideration in direct
proportion to the regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules.
You can't expect motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to
yourself) if you flout your obligations on the road. /soapbox
P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few
lights (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why
you can't, if you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means
we get better treatment in general? I know we are all equal road
users in the eye of the law, but the reality is when push comes
to shove, 1000kg of metal beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the
goodwill we can generate, because if it turns into a jungle, we
are the mewling baby birds on the forest floor.
P.P. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
&roo



I live in Palo Alto, Ca, USA, a.k.a., "on the peninsula". The main
artery for bikes is Foothill Expressway. Access is limited to main
streets that cross Foothill. Thus, there are more than a few lights. I
always stop at the lights. There's too much traffic to blow off a red
light. I also refrain from making a U-turn down the intersecting street
to dodge the red light. People have been killed trying that. Most of the
intersections can sense bikes in the left turn lane. Some can't. On the
ones that can't, I treat them as a stop sign when making a left turn.
Even that can get tricky when the volume of motor traffic is up.

In general, traffic is too heavy around here to run red lights. The odds
of being caught by a cop or an oncoming car are too great. It's not
worth the exposure.

Stop signs are a slightly different case. On four way stops I roll up
to the intersections slowly so as to be able to stop if I spot
something. If not, I roll into the intersection without touching the
ground with my foot. Most of the time I'm the only one at the
intersection so, why come out of the clips? When traffic is heavy or
the intersection is blind, I always stop. On two way stops where I have
the right of way, I don't assume I'm going to get it if there are cars
present or the corners are blind.

There are a few intersections on popular routes where the local
police/sheriffs hang out on weekends to site cyclists who run stop
signs. They will site cyclists and they can be rather picky about
whether touching the foot is a stop or coming to a complete stop is a
stop or hovering in the clips for a few seconds is a stop. It's cheaper
to stop with a foot flat on the ground.

Most of the drivers around here fit uder the hump in the bell curve.
Many of the drivers are cyclists themselves. It's that three sigma prat
that keeps me honest.



--
A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy. –Lord Halifax

--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

"Georgetown_Jay" wrote:

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have
some idiot on another bike behind me catch up and roll through
the intersection.

What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
times.

John

"Georgetown_Jay" wrote:

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have
some idiot on another bike behind me catch up and roll through
the intersection.

What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
times.

John

"Andrew Swan" wrote in message
...

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

Never ever ever.

(1) I want all other road users to respect me as a rightful user of the
road, and to do so, it's important that I follow the rules that they need to
abide by.

(2) I'm kinda lucky to be here today after being hit (in a car) by a drunk
running a red light late one night. Came through a crossroads (Melbournians:
corner of Springfield Rd and Blackburn Rd) and hit the front right guard of
my car, spinning me around a few times while he speared off into a power
pole. A few feet further and it would have been the driver's door that he
hit, not the guard. I was very lucky to walk away with a few cracked ribs
and a thumping headache.

(3) Accidents happen at intersections, not when you're idling along some
country lane "Famous Five" style. Life is precious, people. We gotta take
care out there.

"Andrew Swan" wrote in message
...

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

Never ever ever.

(1) I want all other road users to respect me as a rightful user of the
road, and to do so, it's important that I follow the rules that they need to
abide by.

(2) I'm kinda lucky to be here today after being hit (in a car) by a drunk
running a red light late one night. Came through a crossroads (Melbournians:
corner of Springfield Rd and Blackburn Rd) and hit the front right guard of
my car, spinning me around a few times while he speared off into a power
pole. A few feet further and it would have been the driver's door that he
hit, not the guard. I was very lucky to walk away with a few cracked ribs
and a thumping headache.

(3) Accidents happen at intersections, not when you're idling along some
country lane "Famous Five" style. Life is precious, people. We gotta take
care out there.

I have only ever run red lights, when it is dark about 5 in the morning
and there is sight nor sign of another living thing or motorised thing.
I know it is still illegal but I feel that if I obey the road rules then
I will get treated better by drivers because they are going to see I
obey road rules.

People that usually coast past me I then usually pass them again anyway,
they are just fooling themselves and one day the are going to do it, not
see something and it is going to kill/injure either themselves or
someone else.

its just not worth it and packs should stick the rules more than
anybody else.

the thing about red lights and the sensors not detecting the bike really
does give me the irks.... so what do you do wait for a car to come along
? I dont think so.

Mikey



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