Bikes Running Red Lights

"Andrew Lighten" wrote in message
...
So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of
lights
around here that don't detect bikes.

Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
light have already changed?
Surely the light's default mode isn't "red" - someone must've activated
the crossing for it to change - so it will change back, right?
Or if it's an intersection, they cycle through so both directions get a
run - don't they?
If the traffic is _that_ infrequent that you have to go over to a ped
crossing and hit the button - surely you could safely go through?

hippy

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
light have already changed?

Yeah, but the question was what you do at lights that don't have a timer and
don't get tripped by a bike.

For me it's kind of a moot point anyway. The nearest traffic light from
where I live is ~15km, and I always cycle in the other direction. :-)

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
light have already changed?

Yeah, but the question was what you do at lights that don't have a timer and
don't get tripped by a bike.

For me it's kind of a moot point anyway. The nearest traffic light from
where I live is ~15km, and I always cycle in the other direction. :-)

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...


"Andrew Swan" wrote in message
...
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

soapbox
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
/soapbox

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...


"Andrew Swan" wrote in message
...
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

soapbox
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
/soapbox

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

Probably got his license out of the most convenient Kellogg's package... ;-)
"Ray Peace" wrote in message ...
Greetings,
That's nothing, my favourite red light moron was a couple of years ago less than 2 km from here. I was stopping behind two lanes of cars for a red pedestrian light. The idiot on my right locked up all four wheels and slid to a halt less than two metres from the car in front. He then executed a left turn in front of me and went through the red light on the footpath (!) Where did this dickhead get his licence in the first place ?
Regards,
Ray.

Liz wrote:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car driversanyway.I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on amoderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man toappear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, thenstarted to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through theintersection. Gave me quite a fright."troyq" wrote in w Swan wrote: Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts meto ask, do you run red lights: snip &rooI know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know ifpeople treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such aspedestrian crossings...Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down ahill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side andsure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out tobe school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intentionof crossing the road.Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentionedabove... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or severalin their direction.So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone alwaysstop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?
----------------------------Posted via cyclingforums.comhttp://www.cyclingforums.com

Probably got his license out of the most convenient Kellogg's package... ;-)
"Ray Peace" wrote in message ...
Greetings,
That's nothing, my favourite red light moron was a couple of years ago less than 2 km from here. I was stopping behind two lanes of cars for a red pedestrian light. The idiot on my right locked up all four wheels and slid to a halt less than two metres from the car in front. He then executed a left turn in front of me and went through the red light on the footpath (!) Where did this dickhead get his licence in the first place ?
Regards,
Ray.

Liz wrote:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car driversanyway.I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on amoderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man toappear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, thenstarted to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through theintersection. Gave me quite a fright."troyq" wrote in w Swan wrote: Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts meto ask, do you run red lights: snip &rooI know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know ifpeople treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such aspedestrian crossings...Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down ahill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side andsure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out tobe school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intentionof crossing the road.Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentionedabove... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or severalin their direction.So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone alwaysstop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?
----------------------------Posted via cyclingforums.comhttp://www.cyclingforums.com

"Andrew Morris" wrote in message
u...
When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...


On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, ****ing off
drivers by holding up whole major intersections during peak hour is perhaps
not the most effective way of doing it.

Tim

"Andrew Morris" wrote in message
u...
When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...


On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, ****ing off
drivers by holding up whole major intersections during peak hour is perhaps
not the most effective way of doing it.

Tim

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:33:08 +1000, "Tim Jones"
wrote:

Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time
and gaining some confidence in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

Not a good way of inducing motorists to look favourably upon cyclists.

Since when was that the goal? It's there to encourage onlookers to
become cyclists, not to encourage motorists to remain motorists but
become nice motorists.. As it's quite simply impossible to make
motorists less arrogant (towards each other, let alone toward
cyclists), any attempt to play nice would only be met by their usual
attitide.. Better ot ignore them altogehter..

What I was talking about specifically was that I have no issue with the
ride, even taking up several lanes for a few hundred cyclists to go around
the city. The ride I went on however culminated in stopping in the middle of
a busy intersection, whooping, someone holding their bicycle over their head
and not moving on.

Quite normal.. And how many times have you seen cars block
intersections for several minutes while, say, honking their horns?

The number of queued cars blocking intersections citywide at any
given point of a CM ride is probably greater than the number of CM
riders anyway..

That may well be, and if the ride is meant to celebrate cyclists enjoyment
of the roads that is fine and it serves its purpose. If it is however there
to promote equal road use for cyclists,

Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?

Actually, it's about a lot of things, everybody has their own reasons
for attending, but the bulk of the people that I know there do it for
the "having a good time in a big city" factor..

it is just ****ing off the motorists. It is not making them see your point,
they will just sit in their car fuming.

They'd be doing that anyway..

It will promote equal road use to the cyclists, but this is just preaching
to the converted.

There are also bystanders, who could well be public transport users
who might realise that bikes are faster than trams, or car
passengers/car poolers who might think about cycling instead of
mooching more rides or buying a car..

Meanwhile, once someone owns a car, it's almost impossible to coax
them out of it, as most of the costs have to be paid for (repayments,
rego, insurance etc) whether the car is used or sits in the garage..


PC