|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
Donald Munro wrote:
Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example. Doug Taylor wrote: Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT improvement - grand tour victory. Someone with a non-aerodynamic position can achieve quite large improvement just by improving their position and getting to feel comfortable on the TT bike. After that the law of diminishing returns comes into effect and the rider also needs to improve power. Also the TT that Rasmussen did was far from flat, a flat TT like the one on Saturday would have been a better test of his pure TT form. |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
Donald Munro wrote:
Doug Taylor wrote: His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta. Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example. Basso isn't a climber, he's an allrounder who just learnt the dicipline late in his carrer. Contador and Herras a both examples of pure climbers with extraordinary good TT abilities. Saiz, Brunel and dr.Fuentes did a very good job with both of them. Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain, Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for hours like a steam lokomotive. -- Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
Doug Taylor wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:57:36 -0400, "Breaking News" wrote: Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.) His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta. Rasmussen wouldn't have won TDF because of TT results. -- Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) http://blog.reippuert.dk Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:20:15 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote: in message , Doug Taylor ') wrote: His TT. *Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand tours partly by TT results: *Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta. HELLO? No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to ignore the circumstantial evidence. You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen, I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him, and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're considerably tougher than most modern time trials. We remember one specific time trial in which Rasmussen had every sort of bad luck and lost his composure and his confidence totally, and we say 'he can't time trial'. But that's just rubbish. He has put in astounding time trial performances in all the last three tours - he just hasn't done it on time trial stages. Rasmussen /may/ have doped, but his time trial performance isn't any sort of evidence of it. The analysis is not entirely off the mark. Not to mention that he was a mountain biker, and those races are really time trials in the woods. But in THIS tour, he did a (in?)credible TT in a time trial stage. Yes, he was defending a yellow jersey in this tour. In past tours, when his TT stages were crap - and not just the 2006 embarrassment; check 2005 - his goal was a polka dot jersey and a top 10 g.c. finish. Could be apples and oranges. But he came to THIS tour following training in what now appears to be suspicious circumstances, which in retrospect should have precluded his starting in the first place. My guess is that he was blood doped to the gills with a plan to win the race. Nobody but nobody picked him to be close to the podium before the race. Then he starts putting big time in the Alps, holds on with an unlikely TT performance, and then kicks major butt in every single Pyrenees stage. Sorry, but the cynical side of me says: Marco Pantani, Roberto Heras, Ivan Basso, Mickael Rasmussen: Climbers who doped to win (almost win) grand tours. We'll see... |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
On Jul 26, 10:00 am, Morten Reippuert
wrote: Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain, Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for hours like a steam lokomotive. Dumbass - Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had everything but the discipline. thanks, K. Gringioni. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
Simon Brooke wrote:
in message , Doug Taylor ') wrote: His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta. HELLO? No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to ignore the circumstantial evidence. You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen, I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him, and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're considerably tougher than most modern time trials. If you said he was a mountain-time-trial specialist, I'd agree. There his very high power-to-weight ratio serves him well. On a flat TT, it's the power-to-frontal-area ratio that matters most (or power-to-air-drag ratio). There his physiological or body-type advantage is less, and he'd be expected to do less well. Further, his mountain exploits are several hours long versus a ~1 hour time trial. While he has the mental/physiological ability to do long hilly solo efforts, that's not quite a TT as the Tour has come to stage them (excluding uphill TTs, anyway). That said, it's quite true that Rasmussen's change from the final TT in the '06 tour to the first TT in the '07 tour is very credibly laid primarily to his having gotten a clue about how to ride a TT stage - he was certainly clueless (or psyched out and semi-clueless) last year. He didn't need improved doping to radically improve over his '06 TT's. That's not to say he wasn't doping for either or both, either. Mark J. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:02:23 +0200, Morten Reippuert
wrote: Doug Taylor wrote: On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:57:36 -0400, "Breaking News" wrote: Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.) His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta. Rasmussen wouldn't have won TDF because of TT results. Not true. He lost than 7 minutes in the 2005 TT http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/res...es/8592.0.html and 8 minutes in 2006 http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/res...s/10535.0.html This year he defends. Do the math. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40 +0200, Morten Reippuert
wrote: Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain, Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for hours like a steam lokomotive. Suddenly? -- JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
Mark wrote:
That said, it's quite true that Rasmussen's change from the final TT in the '06 tour to the first TT in the '07 tour is very credibly laid primarily to his having gotten a clue about how to ride a TT stage - he was certainly clueless (or psyched out and semi-clueless) last year. He didn't need improved doping to radically improve over his '06 TT's. That's not to say he wasn't doping for either or both, either. stage 1 ITT 2005 (prologue-like): http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005...esults/tour051 174th place Second ITT: no untainted split times available. Prologue 2007: http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007...esults/tour070 166th place I don't see evidence of improvement which can't be explained by motivation. Then again, there is testimony he has been doping as far back as 2002, so why should we expect it? Dan |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
On Jul 26, 10:00 am, Morten Reippuert
wrote: Donald Munro wrote: Basso isn't a climber, he's an allrounder who just learnt the dicipline late in his carrer. Contador and Herras a both examples of pure climbers with extraordinary good TT abilities. Saiz, Brunel and dr.Fuentes did a very good job with both of them. Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain, Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for hours like a steam lokomotive. Heras used to be much worse at TTs, then suddenly he got good, suspiciously good. Contador is still pretty young, so some improvement in TTs is not crazy. Indurain and Hincapie are pretty big; Ullrich moderately so, though as JFT points out, he was always good. Armstrong and Vinokourov aren't even that big - they're both 5'10". I don't think any of these guys are pure as the driven snow, but I also don't have dopedar - I can't tell they're doping just by looking at them. Ben |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Lindsay Lohan and Michael Rasmussen Plan "Just Say Yes to Drugs" World Tour | Breaking News | Racing | 0 | July 26th 07 06:48 AM |
Email Michael Rasmussen at Rabobank's website | Mike Hamilton | Racing | 0 | July 26th 07 06:03 AM |
Michael Rasmussen | Michael | Racing | 37 | August 9th 05 03:25 AM |
"Reason to Suspect" | B. Lafferty | Racing | 87 | August 1st 05 02:32 PM |
Reasons to suspect Armstrong... | Skuyte Hamrell | Racing | 45 | July 31st 04 07:04 PM |