27" Q:Which is more sturdy for touring, Wolber 58 or Velocity Synergy?

It's getting tougher and tougher to find 27" (630mm) 48H rims.

Wolber 58's are available and Peter White Cycles tells me that Velocity no longer makes the Dyad in 48H, only the Synergy.

Does anyone have an opinion asto which would be the sturdier rim for loaded touring? I weigh about 275 for starters, add the bike and f/r panniers.

Am I correct that Mavic and Sun no longer make 48H 27" rims...are there any others? Akai?

Pureheart in Aptos, CA

On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:43:07 AM UTC-7, wrote:
It's getting tougher and tougher to find 27" (630mm) 48H rims.



Wolber 58's are available and Peter White Cycles tells me that Velocity no longer makes the Dyad in 48H, only the Synergy.



Does anyone have an opinion asto which would be the sturdier rim for loaded touring? I weigh about 275 for starters, add the bike and f/r panniers.



Am I correct that Mavic and Sun no longer make 48H 27" rims...are there any others? Akai?

BTW, what does Peter White recommend?

I built a ton of wheels on the Super Champion Mod. 58s (now Wolber), and they were bullet proof, particularly in the knuckle-skinning 48 hole version. You could get them infinitely true. They weigh about 550g, which is about 60 grams heavier than the Synergy.

The Synergy is a more modern, double-wall design. It is a deeper rim, and it comes in an OC version for the rear wheel which helps with the huge imbalance in spoke tensions with 130mm hubs. I have no experience with this rim, but at its weight, it is probably just as strong or stronger than the Mod.. 58 -- but probably less durable in the sense that high spoke tensions may cause rim cracking. With all that rim area, double-walled and at that weight, the wall thickness can't be that thick. BUT, with 48 spokes, cracking is probably less likely because you're spreading the load between so many spokes and so evenly around a double-wall rim.

Personally, I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on NOS 27" rims (Wolber/Super Champ) or on any 27" rim. In fact, the NOS Super Champ Mod. 58s are going for insanely stupid amounts of money on ebay -- hundreds of dollars. I paid $10 rim when I was building with these rims in the '70s and early '80s.

Before spending big money on rims, I would do whatever I needed to do to switch to 700C. The cantis on my 27" wheel Cannondale T100 worked fine with 700C. When I switched to 700C on my old trans-con touring bike, I got Campy drop bolts -- but nowadays, you can get long-reach Tektro brakes. Then you can have whatever wheels you want. Frankly, finding 27" tires while on tour is not easy in many places (sort of the reverse problem of when 700C was up and coming in the '70s.)

-- Jay Beattie.

FOR TIRES CHECK the last date of manufacture. IE, the warehouse has 250 27" tires but these tires are in there for how many years ? During the passage, new 700c tires models moved ahead in design, manu techniques, compounds and KEVLAR BEADS !

KEVLAR BEADS ALLOW CARRY OF A SPARE TIRE.

CONTi TT is my example where I was forced to rebuild the commuter to 700c. The warehouse has umpteen tires, I checked. But no more were in the pipe,I didnah know. So ne day in Spring uh uh 1993 ? Harris put up the sign

NO MORE 27" TT

In facto, at that time no more anything except the string wall Pasela, NOT a commuter tire. Ebulllient but not fail safe.

Yeah. Boot it n move down to 700c. Buy a new bike. Retool the old one. New brakes on aluminum spacer straps is no big deal...like tween bell housing and block when you stuffed your Fiat X with a BOP.

Well, did the future move past the incomparable 27" TT. You bet ! thru and past in grip/reliability/cost/KEVLAR BEAD.

I dunno abt your heart but fersure if you stay with 27" ura gonna develoop a PITA

White recommends yawl send him a $20

On Friday, June 27, 2014 2:55:45 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:43:07 AM UTC-7, wrote:

It's getting tougher and tougher to find 27" (630mm) 48H rims.







Wolber 58's are available and Peter White Cycles tells me that Velocity no longer makes the Dyad in 48H, only the Synergy.







Does anyone have an opinion asto which would be the sturdier rim for loaded touring? I weigh about 275 for starters, add the bike and f/r panniers.







Am I correct that Mavic and Sun no longer make 48H 27" rims...are there any others? Akai?



BTW, what does Peter White recommend?



I built a ton of wheels on the Super Champion Mod. 58s (now Wolber), and they were bullet proof, particularly in the knuckle-skinning 48 hole version. You could get them infinitely true. They weigh about 550g, which is about 60 grams heavier than the Synergy.



The Synergy is a more modern, double-wall design. It is a deeper rim, and it comes in an OC version for the rear wheel which helps with the huge imbalance in spoke tensions with 130mm hubs. I have no experience with this rim, but at its weight, it is probably just as strong or stronger than the Mod. 58 -- but probably less durable in the sense that high spoke tensions may cause rim cracking. With all that rim area, double-walled and at that weight, the wall thickness can't be that thick. BUT, with 48 spokes, cracking is probably less likely because you're spreading the load between so many spokes and so evenly around a double-wall rim.



Personally, I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on NOS 27" rims (Wolber/Super Champ) or on any 27" rim. In fact, the NOS Super Champ Mod. 58s are going for insanely stupid amounts of money on ebay -- hundreds of dollars. I paid $10 rim when I was building with these rims in the '70s and early '80s..



Before spending big money on rims, I would do whatever I needed to do to switch to 700C. The cantis on my 27" wheel Cannondale T100 worked fine with 700C. When I switched to 700C on my old trans-con touring bike, I got Campy drop bolts -- but nowadays, you can get long-reach Tektro brakes. Then you can have whatever wheels you want. Frankly, finding 27" tires while on tour is not easy in many places (sort of the reverse problem of when 700C was up and coming in the '70s.)



-- Jay Beattie.

Hi Jay.
Thank-you for the great reply.
This guy might have a stash of Model 58's...check out the link he
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wolber-su...d3617/?geoc=us

....now if he only ships to the colonies.

I just assumed that Velocity would not bother to make the 27" version of the Synergy in the OC version....if they do, wow!, then one could easily make do with a 40H or even 36H version. It's a really keen concept.

As far as 700C goes, you simply have to accept that I am retro-curmudgeon and that 700C is never going to happen. (I have already converted my Easy Racer from 700C to God's rim--27" (ISO 630mm). Heck, I would still be using CP/M if I could....I'm just that way.

That being said, you will probably roll your eyes knowingly when I add that I am a SunTour man over the others as well.
You mentioned the 130 mm spacing, but I am using 126mm Ultra-6's. Thanks to eBay I should have all the cogs and freewheel bodies I need.

One thing about cyclists...they are very individualistic (and they like doing their own thing, too). I guess that's why I like it so much.

Thank-you again and I hope for some more great opinions.

pH


Anyway, thank-you for the good reply.

On Friday, June 27, 2014 2:55:45 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:43:07 AM UTC-7, wrote:

It's getting tougher and tougher to find 27" (630mm) 48H rims.







Wolber 58's are available and Peter White Cycles tells me that Velocity no longer makes the Dyad in 48H, only the Synergy.







Does anyone have an opinion asto which would be the sturdier rim for loaded touring? I weigh about 275 for starters, add the bike and f/r panniers.







Am I correct that Mavic and Sun no longer make 48H 27" rims...are there any others? Akai?



BTW, what does Peter White recommend?



I built a ton of wheels on the Super Champion Mod. 58s (now Wolber), and they were bullet proof, particularly in the knuckle-skinning 48 hole version. You could get them infinitely true. They weigh about 550g, which is about 60 grams heavier than the Synergy.



The Synergy is a more modern, double-wall design. It is a deeper rim, and it comes in an OC version for the rear wheel which helps with the huge imbalance in spoke tensions with 130mm hubs. I have no experience with this rim, but at its weight, it is probably just as strong or stronger than the Mod. 58 -- but probably less durable in the sense that high spoke tensions may cause rim cracking. With all that rim area, double-walled and at that weight, the wall thickness can't be that thick. BUT, with 48 spokes, cracking is probably less likely because you're spreading the load between so many spokes and so evenly around a double-wall rim.



Personally, I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on NOS 27" rims (Wolber/Super Champ) or on any 27" rim. In fact, the NOS Super Champ Mod. 58s are going for insanely stupid amounts of money on ebay -- hundreds of dollars. I paid $10 rim when I was building with these rims in the '70s and early '80s..




Before spending big money on rims, I would do whatever I needed to do to switch to 700C. The cantis on my 27" wheel Cannondale T100 worked fine with 700C. When I switched to 700C on my old trans-con touring bike, I got Campy drop bolts -- but nowadays, you can get long-reach Tektro brakes. Then you can have whatever wheels you want. Frankly, finding 27" tires while on tour is not easy in many places (sort of the reverse problem of when 700C was up and coming in the '70s.)



-- Jay Beattie.

Oops, sorry, Jay. I neglected your first question.
Peter says that the Synergies are good for "moderately loaded" touring.
Since I'm a Clydesdale (ie: fatty) I want heavily loaded.

I love my Mavic Mod 4's I have now, but they won't last forever and I do enjoy making wheels.

pH

what saddles are you on ?

On Friday, June 27, 2014 7:23:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
what saddles are you on ?

Wow, I really can't say. The saddle I have was transferred over from the bike I had in the late 1970's, a Centurion Super Le-Mans which I transferred to my Cannondale frame after a horrible accident...too long to tell here.

On my mountain bike I have a Brooks B17 and am planning to put same on my Cannondale when the time comes as I have a couple spares.

pH

HELMET ?

http://p2.la-img.com/482/3026/1299339_1_l.jpg

On Friday, June 27, 2014 7:12:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 27, 2014 2:55:45 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:43:07 AM UTC-7, wrote:



It's getting tougher and tougher to find 27" (630mm) 48H rims.















Wolber 58's are available and Peter White Cycles tells me that Velocity no longer makes the Dyad in 48H, only the Synergy.















Does anyone have an opinion asto which would be the sturdier rim for loaded touring? I weigh about 275 for starters, add the bike and f/r panniers.















Am I correct that Mavic and Sun no longer make 48H 27" rims...are there any others? Akai?







BTW, what does Peter White recommend?







I built a ton of wheels on the Super Champion Mod. 58s (now Wolber), and they were bullet proof, particularly in the knuckle-skinning 48 hole version. You could get them infinitely true. They weigh about 550g, which is about 60 grams heavier than the Synergy.







The Synergy is a more modern, double-wall design. It is a deeper rim, and it comes in an OC version for the rear wheel which helps with the huge imbalance in spoke tensions with 130mm hubs. I have no experience with this rim, but at its weight, it is probably just as strong or stronger than the Mod. 58 -- but probably less durable in the sense that high spoke tensions may cause rim cracking. With all that rim area, double-walled and at that weight, the wall thickness can't be that thick. BUT, with 48 spokes, cracking is probably less likely because you're spreading the load between so many spokes and so evenly around a double-wall rim.







Personally, I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on NOS 27" rims (Wolber/Super Champ) or on any 27" rim. In fact, the NOS Super Champ Mod. 58s are going for insanely stupid amounts of money on ebay -- hundreds of dollars. I paid $10 rim when I was building with these rims in the '70s and early '80s.







Before spending big money on rims, I would do whatever I needed to do to switch to 700C. The cantis on my 27" wheel Cannondale T100 worked fine with 700C. When I switched to 700C on my old trans-con touring bike, I got Campy drop bolts -- but nowadays, you can get long-reach Tektro brakes. Then you can have whatever wheels you want. Frankly, finding 27" tires while on tour is not easy in many places (sort of the reverse problem of when 700C was up and coming in the '70s.)







-- Jay Beattie.



Hi Jay.

Thank-you for the great reply.

This guy might have a stash of Model 58's...check out the link he

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/wolber-su...d3617/?geoc=us



...now if he only ships to the colonies.



I just assumed that Velocity would not bother to make the 27" version of the Synergy in the OC version....if they do, wow!, then one could easily make do with a 40H or even 36H version. It's a really keen concept.



As far as 700C goes, you simply have to accept that I am retro-curmudgeon and that 700C is never going to happen. (I have already converted my Easy Racer from 700C to God's rim--27" (ISO 630mm). Heck, I would still be using CP/M if I could....I'm just that way.



That being said, you will probably roll your eyes knowingly when I add that I am a SunTour man over the others as well.

You mentioned the 130 mm spacing, but I am using 126mm Ultra-6's. Thanks to eBay I should have all the cogs and freewheel bodies I need.



One thing about cyclists...they are very individualistic (and they like doing their own thing, too). I guess that's why I like it so much.



Thank-you again and I hope for some more great opinions.



pH





Anyway, thank-you for the good reply.