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#81
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2/24/2018 2:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:57 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-23 10:01, Tim McNamara wrote: In my reference, generators mounted on the seatstay or chainstays would be "rear triangle" mounted. Because the frame is the ground (earth on the east side of the Atlantic), a single wire ran through the frame tubes. It connected to a carbon brush in the head tube, which me contact with an insulated ring on the steerer tube. A wire from that traveled through the front rack to the headlight. And ground went via the bearings like it does in most European dynamos set-ups? That was always a sick concept. I don't think in automotive anyone would let a blooper like that pass a design review. Yet that was and maybe still is standard fare on most dynamo-equiped bicycles. I agree that grounding via the bike frame is a bad idea. But it's always been possible to run a two-conductor cord and ground things properly, which is what I've done at least since 1980. And AFAIK all hub dynamos have always used proper grounding through a two-conductor cord. Right and a fascinating history, too. When the British invented vehicle electric systems they had to pick a number and six is a good number so they went with 6v. Positive Earth too, which is a good name for a garage band or a cult. Anyway over time (usually a few months) they discovered that linen wrapped single wire passing through punched panel holes will let the essential smoke out, at which point the car stops. So Sturmey Archer went with double wire. Keeps the smoke in better. All was well after that. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#82
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 11:57:38 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-23 10:01, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:29:16 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-18 14:21, Tim McNamara wrote: Since stopping racing, though, I've converted everything back to DT shifters. I use a handlebar bag on two of my bikes and the extra cables interfere with that. Since I'm not racing, the minor inconvenience of reaching down to shift is a moot point for me. Plus- maybe this is a function of my generation- I prefer the looks of DT shifters due to the reduced cables sticking out the front. Once we have wireless shifters that are reliable, ... Then one sunny day it don't shift no more and the display bluntly scrolls "An irrecoverable error has occurred. Please can 1-800 ..." :-) LOL! Funny because it's true. "Hang on, dudes, I have to reboot my bike." Almost. IIRC a guy had to bring his bike back to the shop because new software had to be loaded to cure some suboptimal shifting behavior. In the good old days pliers, wrenches and 15 minutes in the garage sufficed, as it does on all my current bikes. I'd rather upgrade software than have to toss out a POS friction-shifting derailleur like an old Campy Rally or a lot of the Simplex. Many derailleurs were suboptimal out of the box back in the supposed golden era of cycling. And it's not like DT friction shifters were immune from problems. SIS levers failed a lot. I just got back from a ride on my UDi2 equipped Synapse -- which is my fast rain bike. Worked like a charm. However, if I hadn't gotten the bike with a crash-replacement discount and insurance money, I wouldn't have bought Di2. The price differential is not worth it to me. Cable STI works beautifully, although with the bizarre internal cable routing these days, it can be a little stiff shifting on some bikes. -- Jay Beattie. |
#84
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 5:51:24 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
I'd rather upgrade software than have to toss out a POS friction-shifting derailleur like an old Campy Rally or a lot of the Simplex. Many derailleurs were suboptimal out of the box back in the supposed golden era of cycling. I agree. For me, the big change came when I installed my first SunTour derailleur. And their ratcheting "Power" shifters, I think they were called. I remember being on one of the few suffer-fest training rides I ever did. I was on my only bike - my touring/commuting/day-ride bike. (I did take the fenders and handlebar bag off.) Almost everyone else was riding sew-ups and Campy.the And I watched the guys in front of me fishing for gears, trying to downshift. The SunTour just shifted as I wanted. BTW, last year I resurrected an old touring Trek for a friend of mine. It had a Campy Rally derailleur. It needed complete disassembly and lubricating. But I was aware that even clean and lubed, it was going to shift pretty badly. - Frank Krygowski |
#85
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-24 13:51, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/24/2018 2:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 2/24/2018 2:57 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-23 10:01, Tim McNamara wrote: In my reference, generators mounted on the seatstay or chainstays would be "rear triangle" mounted. Because the frame is the ground (earth on the east side of the Atlantic), a single wire ran through the frame tubes. It connected to a carbon brush in the head tube, which me contact with an insulated ring on the steerer tube. A wire from that traveled through the front rack to the headlight. And ground went via the bearings like it does in most European dynamos set-ups? That was always a sick concept. I don't think in automotive anyone would let a blooper like that pass a design review. Yet that was and maybe still is standard fare on most dynamo-equiped bicycles. I agree that grounding via the bike frame is a bad idea. But it's always been possible to run a two-conductor cord and ground things properly, which is what I've done at least since 1980. And AFAIK all hub dynamos have always used proper grounding through a two-conductor cord. Right and a fascinating history, too. When the British invented vehicle electric systems they had to pick a number and six is a good number so they went with 6v. That was not a British decision. At least in Europe all cars had 6V system until the 60's. ... Positive Earth too, which is a good name for a garage band or a cult. A guy at my bike pub stop came on a vintage UK motorcycle. When looking at it together he remarked the positive ground and said that in the country of Her Royal Majesty they just had to be different. IIRC some French cars had that as well. French? Mon Dieu! ... Anyway over time (usually a few months) they discovered that linen wrapped single wire passing through punched panel holes will let the essential smoke out, at which point the car stops. Seriously? On a motor vehicle? When I was young I wound some transformers and when in need of a low voltage high amp secondary winding it was customary to use raw copper and wrap it with lacquer-soaked linen. The lacquer-soaking was crucial. That lasts almost forever, I still have one that was built before WW-II. Of course, this technique is not suitable for anything that moves, flexes or rattles. This also saved money but it probably was detrimental to the health for a hobbyist. The only way to get the lacquer off the hands were harsh chemicals. ... So Sturmey Archer went with double wire. Keeps the smoke in better. All was well after that. Using the frame as ground is ok but not across bearings or bushings of any kind. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#86
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-24 14:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 11:57:38 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-23 10:01, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:29:16 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-18 14:21, Tim McNamara wrote: Since stopping racing, though, I've converted everything back to DT shifters. I use a handlebar bag on two of my bikes and the extra cables interfere with that. Since I'm not racing, the minor inconvenience of reaching down to shift is a moot point for me. Plus- maybe this is a function of my generation- I prefer the looks of DT shifters due to the reduced cables sticking out the front. Once we have wireless shifters that are reliable, ... Then one sunny day it don't shift no more and the display bluntly scrolls "An irrecoverable error has occurred. Please can 1-800 ..." :-) LOL! Funny because it's true. "Hang on, dudes, I have to reboot my bike." Almost. IIRC a guy had to bring his bike back to the shop because new software had to be loaded to cure some suboptimal shifting behavior. In the good old days pliers, wrenches and 15 minutes in the garage sufficed, as it does on all my current bikes. I'd rather upgrade software than have to toss out a POS friction-shifting derailleur like an old Campy Rally or a lot of the Simplex. Many derailleurs were suboptimal out of the box back in the supposed golden era of cycling. And it's not like DT friction shifters were immune from problems. SIS levers failed a lot. Maybe I was lucky all those decades of my life. When I was young our parents bought us catalog store bikes, the equivalent of what would be Sears in the US. Those were bargain-basement road bikes. The shifters worked great. Same on all those cheap department store road bikes I had as a student. I wore out about one bike per year and the shifters and derailers were never an issue. Same today, Deore XT on the MTB and ye olde Shimano 600EX on the road bike. The old MTB has Alivio where they messed up with the grease they put in the shifter lever assemblies (gunks up and hardens fast). After flushing all that out and using Tri-Flow oil it works great. The only time derailers fail is on the MTB when they are hit by a sizeable rock and get bent. I assume a Di2 derailer would suffer there as well, except when it gets whacked one might not always be able to hammer in back to working order out in the field. I just got back from a ride on my UDi2 equipped Synapse -- which is my fast rain bike. Worked like a charm. However, if I hadn't gotten the bike with a crash-replacement discount and insurance money, I wouldn't have bought Di2. The price differential is not worth it to me. Cable STI works beautifully, although with the bizarre internal cable routing these days, it can be a little stiff shifting on some bikes. Since my two main bikes have a big central battery I could probably use Di2 without ever worrying about running out of juice. However, given that the Shimano mechanical stuff works great I don't see a need, plus I like the very fast shift across have a dozen cogs that the friction shifter on my road bike affords. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#87
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2/25/2018 9:56 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-24 14:51, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 11:57:38 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-23 10:01, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:29:16 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-18 14:21, Tim McNamara wrote: Since stopping racing, though, I've converted everything back to DT shifters. I use a handlebar bag on two of my bikes and the extra cables interfere with that. Since I'm not racing, the minor inconvenience of reaching down to shift is a moot point for me. Plus- maybe this is a function of my generation- I prefer the looks of DT shifters due to the reduced cables sticking out the front. Once we have wireless shifters that are reliable, ... Then one sunny day it don't shift no more and the display bluntly scrolls "An irrecoverable error has occurred. Please can 1-800 ..." :-) LOL! Funny because it's true. "Hang on, dudes, I have to reboot my bike." Almost. IIRC a guy had to bring his bike back to the shop because new software had to be loaded to cure some suboptimal shifting behavior. In the good old days pliers, wrenches and 15 minutes in the garage sufficed, as it does on all my current bikes. I'd rather upgrade software than have to toss out a POS friction-shifting derailleur like an old Campy Rally or a lot of the Simplex. Many derailleurs were suboptimal out of the box back in the supposed golden era of cycling. And it's not like DT friction shifters were immune from problems. SIS levers failed a lot. Maybe I was lucky all those decades of my life. When I was young our parents bought us catalog store bikes, the equivalent of what would be Sears in the US. Those were bargain-basement road bikes. The shifters worked great. Same on all those cheap department store road bikes I had as a student. I wore out about one bike per year and the shifters and derailers were never an issue. Same today, Deore XT on the MTB and ye olde Shimano 600EX on the road bike. The old MTB has Alivio where they messed up with the grease they put in the shifter lever assemblies (gunks up and hardens fast). After flushing all that out and using Tri-Flow oil it works great. The only time derailers fail is on the MTB when they are hit by a sizeable rock and get bent. I assume a Di2 derailer would suffer there as well, except when it gets whacked one might not always be able to hammer in back to working order out in the field. I just got back from a ride on my UDi2 equipped Synapse -- which is my fast rain bike. Worked like a charm. However, if I hadn't gotten the bike with a crash-replacement discount and insurance money, I wouldn't have bought Di2. The price differential is not worth it to me. Cable STI works beautifully, although with the bizarre internal cable routing these days, it can be a little stiff shifting on some bikes. Since my two main bikes have a big central battery I could probably use Di2 without ever worrying about running out of juice. However, given that the Shimano mechanical stuff works great I don't see a need, plus I like the very fast shift across have a dozen cogs that the friction shifter on my road bike affords. Well, duh. Of course a regular rock will wreck your Di2. You need a Di2 compatible rock: http://www.luckymojo.com/lodestone.html and just 130 miles form Cameron Park too! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#88
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 7:56:24 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-24 14:51, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 11:57:38 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-23 10:01, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:29:16 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-18 14:21, Tim McNamara wrote: Since stopping racing, though, I've converted everything back to DT shifters. I use a handlebar bag on two of my bikes and the extra cables interfere with that. Since I'm not racing, the minor inconvenience of reaching down to shift is a moot point for me. Plus- maybe this is a function of my generation- I prefer the looks of DT shifters due to the reduced cables sticking out the front. Once we have wireless shifters that are reliable, ... Then one sunny day it don't shift no more and the display bluntly scrolls "An irrecoverable error has occurred. Please can 1-800 ..." :-) LOL! Funny because it's true. "Hang on, dudes, I have to reboot my bike." Almost. IIRC a guy had to bring his bike back to the shop because new software had to be loaded to cure some suboptimal shifting behavior. In the good old days pliers, wrenches and 15 minutes in the garage sufficed, as it does on all my current bikes. I'd rather upgrade software than have to toss out a POS friction-shifting derailleur like an old Campy Rally or a lot of the Simplex. Many derailleurs were suboptimal out of the box back in the supposed golden era of cycling. And it's not like DT friction shifters were immune from problems. SIS levers failed a lot. Maybe I was lucky all those decades of my life. When I was young our parents bought us catalog store bikes, the equivalent of what would be Sears in the US. Those were bargain-basement road bikes. The shifters worked great. Same on all those cheap department store road bikes I had as a student. I wore out about one bike per year and the shifters and derailers were never an issue. Same today, Deore XT on the MTB and ye olde Shimano 600EX on the road bike. The old MTB has Alivio where they messed up with the grease they put in the shifter lever assemblies (gunks up and hardens fast). After flushing all that out and using Tri-Flow oil it works great. The only time derailers fail is on the MTB when they are hit by a sizeable rock and get bent. I assume a Di2 derailer would suffer there as well, except when it gets whacked one might not always be able to hammer in back to working order out in the field. I just got back from a ride on my UDi2 equipped Synapse -- which is my fast rain bike. Worked like a charm. However, if I hadn't gotten the bike with a crash-replacement discount and insurance money, I wouldn't have bought Di2. The price differential is not worth it to me. Cable STI works beautifully, although with the bizarre internal cable routing these days, it can be a little stiff shifting on some bikes. Since my two main bikes have a big central battery I could probably use Di2 without ever worrying about running out of juice. However, given that the Shimano mechanical stuff works great I don't see a need, plus I like the very fast shift across have a dozen cogs that the friction shifter on my road bike affords. Mechanical is fine for me, too, but friction is a retro novelty. By the time you reach down for your shifters, I've already gone through a half-dozen gears and still have five left. And I've shifted under power and gotten out of the saddle if necessary. The ramps, pins, profiles, etc. do make a difference with modern equipment. And with compact, a lot of what used to require a shift onto the small ring doesn't. There is no need to shift the whole block on a modern road bike. SIS indexing would fail, but yes, the friction mode usually would work although lever loosening was common with a lot of DT levers. -- Jay Beattie. |
#89
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-25 08:29, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/25/2018 9:56 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-24 14:51, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 11:57:38 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-23 10:01, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:29:16 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-18 14:21, Tim McNamara wrote: Since stopping racing, though, I've converted everything back to DT shifters. I use a handlebar bag on two of my bikes and the extra cables interfere with that. Since I'm not racing, the minor inconvenience of reaching down to shift is a moot point for me. Plus- maybe this is a function of my generation- I prefer the looks of DT shifters due to the reduced cables sticking out the front. Once we have wireless shifters that are reliable, ... Then one sunny day it don't shift no more and the display bluntly scrolls "An irrecoverable error has occurred. Please can 1-800 ..." :-) LOL! Funny because it's true. "Hang on, dudes, I have to reboot my bike." Almost. IIRC a guy had to bring his bike back to the shop because new software had to be loaded to cure some suboptimal shifting behavior. In the good old days pliers, wrenches and 15 minutes in the garage sufficed, as it does on all my current bikes. I'd rather upgrade software than have to toss out a POS friction-shifting derailleur like an old Campy Rally or a lot of the Simplex. Many derailleurs were suboptimal out of the box back in the supposed golden era of cycling. And it's not like DT friction shifters were immune from problems. SIS levers failed a lot. Maybe I was lucky all those decades of my life. When I was young our parents bought us catalog store bikes, the equivalent of what would be Sears in the US. Those were bargain-basement road bikes. The shifters worked great. Same on all those cheap department store road bikes I had as a student. I wore out about one bike per year and the shifters and derailers were never an issue. Same today, Deore XT on the MTB and ye olde Shimano 600EX on the road bike. The old MTB has Alivio where they messed up with the grease they put in the shifter lever assemblies (gunks up and hardens fast). After flushing all that out and using Tri-Flow oil it works great. The only time derailers fail is on the MTB when they are hit by a sizeable rock and get bent. I assume a Di2 derailer would suffer there as well, except when it gets whacked one might not always be able to hammer in back to working order out in the field. I just got back from a ride on my UDi2 equipped Synapse -- which is my fast rain bike. Worked like a charm. However, if I hadn't gotten the bike with a crash-replacement discount and insurance money, I wouldn't have bought Di2. The price differential is not worth it to me. Cable STI works beautifully, although with the bizarre internal cable routing these days, it can be a little stiff shifting on some bikes. Since my two main bikes have a big central battery I could probably use Di2 without ever worrying about running out of juice. However, given that the Shimano mechanical stuff works great I don't see a need, plus I like the very fast shift across have a dozen cogs that the friction shifter on my road bike affords. Well, duh. Of course a regular rock will wreck your Di2. Rocks kicked up by the front tire are very normal out here. Sometimes they hit a pedal, sometimes the derailer, or both. Other times into a shin and then some blood flows. When they hit the wide MTB downtube the impact lets off a loud THWOCK sound. It's amazing how tough the aluminum on the downtube is. Full of scrapes by now but no noticeable dents. With Di2 a new derailer would cost north of $150 while a Deore derailer can be had for around $50. Those things can also get mangled if some tough vegetation gets tangled in there. Manzanita, chaparral shrubs and such. ... You need a Di2 compatible rock: http://www.luckymojo.com/lodestone.html and just 130 miles form Cameron Park too! And coincidentally one of the singletrack entrances here happens to be on Mother Lode Drive :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#90
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my fixie doesn't need improvement
On 2018-02-25 09:17, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 7:56:24 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote: On 2018-02-24 14:51, jbeattie wrote: [...] I just got back from a ride on my UDi2 equipped Synapse -- which is my fast rain bike. Worked like a charm. However, if I hadn't gotten the bike with a crash-replacement discount and insurance money, I wouldn't have bought Di2. The price differential is not worth it to me. Cable STI works beautifully, although with the bizarre internal cable routing these days, it can be a little stiff shifting on some bikes. Since my two main bikes have a big central battery I could probably use Di2 without ever worrying about running out of juice. However, given that the Shimano mechanical stuff works great I don't see a need, plus I like the very fast shift across have a dozen cogs that the friction shifter on my road bike affords. Mechanical is fine for me, too, but friction is a retro novelty. By the time you reach down for your shifters, I've already gone through a half-dozen gears and still have five left. I can reach down a lot faster than that :-) From the drops to the lever is only a small paw swing. ... And I've shifted under power and gotten out of the saddle if necessary. The ramps, pins, profiles, etc. do make a difference with modern equipment. And with compact, a lot of what used to require a shift onto the small ring doesn't. There is no need to shift the whole block on a modern road bike. If I ever have to replace the whole drive train I will sure go for compact, or triple with granny gear. Though even when on the 52T up front I often shift from 3rd largest to smallest cog in a second. SIS indexing would fail, but yes, the friction mode usually would work although lever loosening was common with a lot of DT levers. My friction shifters are a bit loose now but I had no choice other than slight greasing. They had become so noisy that the squeak upon a gear shift made riders up front turn around. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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