Looking for "Chain-slap" solution...

BB wrote:

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:04:56 GMT, G.T. wrote:

Dan Volker wrote:


Single speeders would have no hope, except to keep up with the HFS
contingent ( Huge Fat Slobs) :-)

That's just about the most clueless thing I've read on a.m-b other than
what comes out of scottdumbski. And I'm not a single-speeder. And I may
never be. But I've ridden with plenty who went just as fast on their
single as they do on their multi on a variety of terrain.


...or faster than guys who do a fair amount of racing (or are generally at
the front of the pack when they ride back home.

I thought the funniest part was when he was talking about 25 mph like its
some sort of unobtainable speed on a singlespeed. I remember one
particular section during that Idaho epic when I was zipping along at
24-25, and I lost sight of JD on his SS pretty early on. I don't know how
fast he was going, but damn he was flyin!

Its OK to make assumptions about things you don't know (I guess), but
putting them on a newsgroup can make one look a bit...inexperienced.


BB, you fall under the definition of "slow, fat guy", (see "Looking for
certain type ..." thread)
Welcome to the club.
--
Craig (6'2", 180 lbs, 9% body fat, just to get an idea of my slow,
fatness) Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove ".nospam" to reply)

"Dan Volker" wrote in message ...
"G.T." wrote in message
...
Dan Volker wrote:



The troll reveals his colors: Behold the GRC laced throughout the diatribe:

Tour de France would be ridden by a few guys on SS's

in the Tour, ability levels between riders are much closer

---VO2 max levels and the maximum performance

I did Veldrome racing

I could ride an 88 inch gear faster than many road riders on "some" road courses,

it was only "optimal" at the Velodrome.

there is only so much range in cadence that is going to be efficient

They might ride OK at a cadence of 40 or 50 for quite a while, but it would burn up muscle glycogen quickly, and produce too much lactate if they were
working hard to maintain a fast pace....if they get over 120 cadence,


However, to give you credit, at least you'll admit that----

I'm still too clueless to understand what you see in these one speed wonderbikes...

***you're finally making sense, Dan.***

Paladin

"Craig Brossman" wrote in message
. net...
BB wrote:

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:04:56 GMT, G.T. wrote:

Dan Volker wrote:


Single speeders would have no hope, except to keep up with the HFS
contingent ( Huge Fat Slobs) :-)

That's just about the most clueless thing I've read on a.m-b other than
what comes out of scottdumbski. And I'm not a single-speeder. And I
may
never be. But I've ridden with plenty who went just as fast on their
single as they do on their multi on a variety of terrain.


...or faster than guys who do a fair amount of racing (or are generally
at
the front of the pack when they ride back home.

I thought the funniest part was when he was talking about 25 mph like
its
some sort of unobtainable speed on a singlespeed. I remember one
particular section during that Idaho epic when I was zipping along at
24-25, and I lost sight of JD on his SS pretty early on. I don't know
how
fast he was going, but damn he was flyin!

Its OK to make assumptions about things you don't know (I guess), but
putting them on a newsgroup can make one look a bit...inexperienced.


BB, you fall under the definition of "slow, fat guy", (see "Looking for
certain type ..." thread)
Welcome to the club.
--
Craig (6'2", 180 lbs, 9% body fat, just to get an idea of my slow,
fatness) Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove ".nospam" to reply)

This whole thread is completely blowing my mind---the whole certainty that
so many posters on this NG have, that SS's are so competitive.

I can only form real opinions of what I've experienced, and I have never
seen ANYTHING like what you guys are saying.
I'm riding the S. Florida trails 3 to 4 days per week ( Quiet Waters and
Jonathan Dickinson) , and each has at least 15 to 40 other riders on the
trails at any given time I'm out there. All the top racers from this area,
and, "all the top riders who don't give a **** about racing", ride these
two trails, along with Markam and Oleta.
I have seen ZERO single speeders able to ride "with" any of the faster
people on any of these trails. Its almost a joke.

I get to Ocala every couple of weeks, where there is some vertical--maybe 75
feet ( still almost pancake flat), but there are still rolling hills, and we
have old phosphate mines the trails go through on trails like Croom, where a
huge pit has been overgrown by plants and trees in the last 3 decades, and
are now great vertical sections for the trails---though still not good
vertical by standards almost anywhere else in the country. And in the Ocala
and north Florida areas, I have not seen any SS bikers that can keep up with
fast riders.

I would love to see first hand, a guy on a SS bike, able to do what you guys
are so certain they can do, on the South Florida trails. If that happened,
and the SS guy really was able to ride with the fast guys here, I would
immediately change my opinions---but it would be based on known facts, not
just boasts on a NewsGroup.

Since most of you guys would look forward to riding our trails about as much
as you would hitting your thumb with a hammer, I don't think I'll hold my
breath for this, but its still something I would love to see.

I will be getting out west this summer for a week or so, to Utah, so maybe
someone can point me to a place in that area where a fast trail exists, and
in which SS bikes are competitive with geared bikes. I don't care about
"slow, ultra technical trails". We have those here also, and while I can
ride them, I just don't find that to be fun. As long as there are plenty of
fast sections on a trail, I'm fine with a few technical sections thrown in
to keep everyone honest:-)

Looking for "real" clues,
Dan V

Dan Volker wrote:
This whole thread is completely blowing my mind---the whole certainty
that so many posters on this NG have, that SS's are so competitive. {snip}

At the risk of stating the obvious, Dan, you've been trolled and swallowed
the hook whole.

Someone can post a question about a rear derailleur adjustment, and a few
zealots will reply "get a singlespeed" just to screw with the easily
scrambled brains out there.

The fact is SS's aren't for everyone (or more literally, every body). If
you're strong enough, skilled enough, AND your knees can take it (mine
can't), then it's a great way to enjoy the simplicity of riding a bike
(while totally spanking your geared 'n suspended compadres).

I'm totally humbled by what these guys can ride, grinding up trails on which
I *NEED* fully granny in a 34/17 or some other ridiculous gear ratio. (And
yes, they DO go much faster BY NECESSITY.)

Might I suggest you take all this a little less "seriously" and have a bit
more "fun"?!? Just a thought...

Bill "happiest when I'm just out riding" S.

"Dan Volker" dug the hole deeper:
If a single speed bike was
really competitive with multi-geared bikes in varied terrain , then the Tour
de France would be ridden by a few guys on SS's....clue to Greg, it will
never happen.

What does the TDF have to do with mountain biking? Not a damn thing.

If you can't figure out how this relates to mountain biking, I feel a little
sorry for you. And here's another hint....in the Tour, ability levels
between riders are much closer---VO2 max levels and the maximum performance
riders are capable of does not varry any where near as much as it does in
the kind of recreational, non-race based mountain biking, that some single
speeders apparently do.

I get the feeling that you are a roadie who occasionally rides a
mountain bike. All of the roadie and race references and still not a
clue.

I do have some experience on "single speed bikes". I did Veldrome racing for
about 4 years--fixed gear, no braking. I could ride an 88 inch gear faster
than many road riders on "some" road courses, but it would suck if there was
a long steep hill, for both the uphill and downhill. Riding my track bike on
the road was fun once in a while, but it was only "optimal" at the
Velodrome.

What does road riding, or velodrome racing have to do with mountain
biking? Not a damn thing. Maybe you should return to that, being
that it's so full of neato buzzwords.

I see how some ss bikers could do well on some rocky trails that keep speeds
between maybe 8 and 15 mph. If the trail had sections that would allow much
faster riding, the ss would be grossly inefficient, and the only people you
"ought" to be able to keep up to then would be other single speeders or fat
guys on geared bikes

You're hysterical! Try getting out more.

I don't care how skilled the SS guys are you have ridden with, there is only
so much range in cadence that is going to be efficient--and again, this will
come down to the ss boys being careful to stick to trails with narrow speed
potentials, so they can stay inside their efficient cadence range. They
might ride OK at a cadence of 40 or 50 for quite a while, but it would burn
up muscle glycogen quickly, and produce too much lactate if they were
working hard to maintain a fast pace....if they get over 120 cadence, which
is really unlikely for a rigid SS biker, it would still end up being to fast
a cadence to be efficient. So unless you guys are trying to tell me that
out West, there is only a narrow speed range its cool to ride at, I guess
I'm still too clueless to understand what you see in these one speed
wonderbikes...

More neato buzzwords from the wonderful world of roadies on mountain
bikes. Mountan biking is not about "efficient", "cadence", "speed
potentials", "muscle glycogen", "lactate", and all of your other
psychoroadiebabble. It's about riding bicycles in the mountains.

JD

"JD" wrote in message
om...
"Dan Volker" dug the hole deeper:
If a single speed bike was
really competitive with multi-geared bikes in varied terrain , then the
Tour
de France would be ridden by a few guys on SS's....clue to Greg, it will
never happen.

What does the TDF have to do with mountain biking? Not a damn thing.


If your really smooth in your mountain biking techniques, then you will flow
over obstacles as though they are barely there----so when the technique is
really good, what's left is up, down, and the flats....this relates to the
TDF--power and speed going uphill, power and speed on the flats, and speed
going downhill. Its about getting the most from your body possible, as well
as from your bike.


If you can't figure out how this relates to mountain biking, I feel a
little
sorry for you. And here's another hint....in the Tour, ability levels
between riders are much closer---VO2 max levels and the maximum
performance
riders are capable of does not varry any where near as much as it does
in
the kind of recreational, non-race based mountain biking, that some
single
speeders apparently do.

I get the feeling that you are a roadie who occasionally rides a
mountain bike. All of the roadie and race references and still not a
clue.

I was a roadie first, but now all I care about is mountain biking---I have
not even ridden my road bike in over 3 months. I don't think its such a bad
thing to take what you learn in each sport, and apply it to others where it
will help.
The only really important thing about mountain biking is how to have the
most amount of fun, but for some of us, dueling it out ( going fast) with
our friends is one enjoyable part of this :-)




I do have some experience on "single speed bikes". I did Veldrome racing
for
about 4 years--fixed gear, no braking. I could ride an 88 inch gear
faster
than many road riders on "some" road courses, but it would suck if there
was
a long steep hill, for both the uphill and downhill. Riding my track
bike on
the road was fun once in a while, but it was only "optimal" at the
Velodrome.

What does road riding, or velodrome racing have to do with mountain
biking? Not a damn thing. Maybe you should return to that, being
that it's so full of neato buzzwords.

I guess you never watched matched sprints in the Olympics....you go from a
cadence as slow as 1 to 5 revolutions per minute ( a track stand) to a
cadence of maybe 30 or 40 for another minute, and then suddenly you explode
from a 40 cadence to one more like 140 or 160, and hold this just about as
long as you can. Durring this explosive sprint, you are often swerving
sharply to left or right, in an attempt to pass. There are some similarities
to getting up a steep hill on a mountain bike, while negotiating
obstacles---and with the track bike you are using just the one gear, like
the ss bikes you guys like.

In what we call scratch races, you have maybe 40 or more riders on single
geared track bikes, modulating there power and endurance for an hour long
race---sometimes cadence is in the 90's, sometimes it is more like 130 or
well above.
This would seem to me to resemble a number of the issues a SS mtn bike rider
must deal with, if his skill level is sharp enough to have him really
flowing over the trail.



More neato buzzwords from the wonderful world of roadies on mountain
bikes. Mountan biking is not about "efficient", "cadence", "speed
potentials", "muscle glycogen", "lactate", and all of your other
psychoroadiebabble. It's about riding bicycles in the mountains.

JD

Skill without concern for fitness is more like Trials riding. And you have
every right to like this.
I care more about speed over Tsali type trails--and I have a right to like
this.
You guys are the ones who started preaching about SS bikes being "better",
on what I "thought" was a mountain bike NG ;-)


I'm still looking forward to seeing a ss rider who can ride with any of my
faster friends, here on S. Florida trails.
Regards,
Dan V

Dan Volker retorted :
The only really important thing about mountain biking is how to have
the most amount of fun, but for some of us, dueling it out ( going
fast) with our friends is one enjoyable part of this :-)


so are you Cookie or Sporkie?

I'll cast my vote for Cookie.

If that made a whooshing sound, you must have missed this the first second
and third times I posted it.
http://teamsmack.org/ride/ride1.htm

"Penny S" wrote in message
...
Dan Volker retorted :
The only really important thing about mountain biking is how to have
the most amount of fun, but for some of us, dueling it out ( going
fast) with our friends is one enjoyable part of this :-)


so are you Cookie or Sporkie?

I'll cast my vote for Cookie.

If that made a whooshing sound, you must have missed this the first
second
and third times I posted it.
http://teamsmack.org/ride/ride1.htm


Funny stuff :-)
Sorry, but I don't resemble either.
Regards,
Dan v

"Dan Volker" wrote in message ...
"Craig Brossman" wrote in message
. net...
BB wrote:

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:04:56 GMT, G.T. wrote:

Dan Volker wrote:


Single speeders would have no hope, except to keep up with the HFS
contingent ( Huge Fat Slobs) :-)

That's just about the most clueless thing I've read on a.m-b other than
what comes out of scottdumbski. And I'm not a single-speeder. And I
may
never be. But I've ridden with plenty who went just as fast on their
single as they do on their multi on a variety of terrain.


...or faster than guys who do a fair amount of racing (or are generally
at
the front of the pack when they ride back home.

I thought the funniest part was when he was talking about 25 mph like
its
some sort of unobtainable speed on a singlespeed. I remember one
particular section during that Idaho epic when I was zipping along at
24-25, and I lost sight of JD on his SS pretty early on. I don't know
how
fast he was going, but damn he was flyin!

Its OK to make assumptions about things you don't know (I guess), but
putting them on a newsgroup can make one look a bit...inexperienced.


BB, you fall under the definition of "slow, fat guy", (see "Looking for
certain type ..." thread)
Welcome to the club.
--
Craig (6'2", 180 lbs, 9% body fat, just to get an idea of my slow,
fatness) Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove ".nospam" to reply)

This whole thread is completely blowing my mind---the whole certainty that
so many posters on this NG have, that SS's are so competitive.

Again, racing doesn't mean jack. Why are you so hung up on
"competing"? Do you have some other issues we don't want to know
about?

I can only form real opinions of what I've experienced, and I have never
seen ANYTHING like what you guys are saying.

Again, you need to get out more.

I'm riding the S. Florida trails 3 to 4 days per week ( Quiet Waters and
Jonathan Dickinson) , and each has at least 15 to 40 other riders on the
trails at any given time I'm out there. All the top racers from this area,
and, "all the top riders who don't give a **** about racing", ride these
two trails, along with Markam and Oleta.
I have seen ZERO single speeders able to ride "with" any of the faster
people on any of these trails. Its almost a joke.

Don't kid yourself, Dan. Florida IS a joke.

I get to Ocala every couple of weeks, where there is some vertical--maybe 75
feet ( still almost pancake flat), but there are still rolling hills, and we
have old phosphate mines the trails go through on trails like Croom, where a
huge pit has been overgrown by plants and trees in the last 3 decades, and
are now great vertical sections for the trails---though still not good
vertical by standards almost anywhere else in the country. And in the Ocala
and north Florida areas, I have not seen any SS bikers that can keep up with
fast riders.

Again with the Florida. You're hilarious.

I would love to see first hand, a guy on a SS bike, able to do what you guys
are so certain they can do, on the South Florida trails. If that happened,
and the SS guy really was able to ride with the fast guys here, I would
immediately change my opinions---but it would be based on known facts, not
just boasts on a NewsGroup.

How does one get "boasts on a newsgroup" from personal experience and
witnessing this "phenomenon" coming from several experienced and well
traveled mountain bikers? See clue below:

Since most of you guys would look forward to riding our trails about as much
as you would hitting your thumb with a hammer, I don't think I'll hold my
breath for this, but its still something I would love to see.

Why the hell would anyone want to travel to Florida for mountain
biking, or even surfing for that matter? Maybe if dodging geriatric
drivers and laughing at snowbird yankees was a sport it would at least
draw in the curious.

I will be getting out west this summer for a week or so, to Utah, so maybe
someone can point me to a place in that area where a fast trail exists, and
in which SS bikes are competitive with geared bikes. I don't care about
"slow, ultra technical trails". We have those here also, and while I can
ride them, I just don't find that to be fun. As long as there are plenty of
fast sections on a trail, I'm fine with a few technical sections thrown in
to keep everyone honest:-)

Make sure you go to Moab in the Summer. It'll be great for you and
all of your amazing speed.

Looking for "real" clues,

Here's one that keeps repeating: It's not about the bike, it's about
the rider.

JD

"Dan Volker" wrote in message ...
"G.T." wrote in message
...
Dan Volker wrote:




That's just about the most clueless thing I've read on a.m-b other than
what comes out of scottdumbski. And I'm not a single-speeder. And I may
never be. But I've ridden with plenty who went just as fast on their
single as they do on their multi on a variety of terrain.

Greg

I don't know Greg, maybe the gene pool you ride in is defective, or you
really don't know what a "variety of terrain means".
Gears make a bike go faster in varried terrain. If a single speed bike was
really competitive with multi-geared bikes in varied terrain , then the Tour
de France would be ridden by a few guys on SS's....clue to Greg, it will
never happen.

LOL. First you extol the virtues of a Liquid, and now this. At
first, I thought you knew something, but now, I get it now...

I see how some ss bikers could do well on some rocky trails that keep speeds
between maybe 8 and 15 mph. If the trail had sections that would allow much
faster riding, the ss would be grossly inefficient, and the only people you
"ought" to be able to keep up to then would be other single speeders or fat
guys on geared bikes ;-)

Jeez, what a maroon. You need to ride with a couple of fat guys I
know. Adam and Chris. Yeah, they really schooled the SS crowd. LOL.

I don't care how skilled the SS guys are you have ridden with, there is only
so much range in cadence that is going to be efficient--and again, this will
come down to the ss boys being careful to stick to trails with narrow speed
potentials, so they can stay inside their efficient cadence range.

Dude, you need a mint suppository to cure that bad breath. Do you
always talk out of your ass like this? I have seen these guys ride,
and they can plain flat smoke your geared ass.

I guess
I'm still too clueless to understand what you see in these one speed
wonderbikes...

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, Danny.

SS ain't my bag, but you have no idea what you're talking about.
--
Jonesy