Attention Electronics Experts: L&M Urban

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 09:35:40 -0800, sms
wrote:

On 1/21/2021 9:28 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 14:39:37 -0800, sms
wrote:

Supposedly there's one place, about 200 miles from Jeff, that sells it.
https://www.pure-gas.org/station?station_id=16121.

The map shows more and closer stations in northern California:
https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/maps.jsp?statecode=CA
There's one in San Ramon CA. I'll give them a call after I'm done
with my deforestation project.

Click on the details, it says that the San Ramon station no longer sells
it. West Sacramento appears to have it.

Thanks. Both the PC web page and the Android app both have a listing
for San Ramon. Both suggest that anyone can remove a listing if
non-ethenol gas is no longer available. I guess(tm) that nobody has
bothered, which makes me wonder about the accuracy of the other
listings.
--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 9:21:26 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 15:47:29 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

in re fuel-
Yes I hear that complaint (& more) from small-engine owners
regularly. Others just buy no-ethanol premium actual
gasoline.
I just bought a 1/2 gallon of Stihl pre-mix fuel for my best chain saw
(Stihl MS180) for $16. That's 8 times the cost of automotive gas.
Ouch:
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/automotive-rv-and-marine/fluids-and-lubrication/lubricants/4000289
I'm getting tired of rebuilding carburetors every 2 years, even if I
drain the tank and carb when storing the saws.
Do you know any classic car or motorcycle
gearheads/ They'll know where to buy gasoline. AVGAS is
harder in that you both have to know someone and there's a
security problem as well.
Thanks. I know one of each type. I didn't think of asking and I'll
give it a try.

What I did exactly once was to remove the ethanol from the gas by
adding an exact amount of water, shake well, let the water/alcohol mix
settle to the bottom, and drain water/alcohol mix from the bottom of
the bottle. I made about 3 gallons at a time. It was way too much
work for just my saws.

Instructional videos on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=remove+ethanol+from+gasoline

I initially made a few mistakes which made the ethanol free gas run
badly and still gum up the carburetor. However, the ethanol wasn't
the problem. The additives in todays gas are just as bad or worse for
the carb than ethanol. This video covers most of the problems with
benzene and olefins:
"The Truth About Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
(10:14)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo

At this point, I've given up and am buying expensive pre-mixed fuel.
It is possible to make a carb diaphragms and gaskets that don't get
hardened by ethanol. Maybe my next chain saw will be fuel injected or
run on propane.

You do understand that buy gas over the lifetime of that chainsaw at
prices like that far offsets using regular gasoline and buying a new
saw as yours wears out don't you?

No, I don't understand because you didn't bother to provide any proof,
references, or calculations to demonstrate your opinion. I typically
buy used chainsaws and rebuild them, but we'll use new prices. My
Stihl MS280 cost me about $200. Depending on the saw, I might burn
through about 3 gallons of gasoline per year per saw or about $12/year
in regular gas. Cost of the equivalent Stihl Motomix would be $96 in
1/2 gallon cans (because the shelf life of Motomix is only 2 years).
Therefore, the difference in fuel costs would be:
$32/year - $12/year = $20/year added cost for fuel.
If I ran on automobile fuel and saved the $20 to buy a new saw, it
would take me:
$200 / $20 = 10 years
to collect enough money for a new saw. If I throw in the $15 cost of
a carb rebuild kit (including gas filter, air filter, gas line, etc)
every 2 years with automotive gas, the break even time would be even
later. Spending a little extra on Motomix to avoid downtime and carb
rebuilds is well worth it.

As for wearing out my saws, most of them are quite old:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/
I've added more saws since the photos were taken. I've donated all
the Homelite EZ saws in the photos. Two were running. I recall
buying both new in about 1975 making them about 45 years old. Except
for the lack of safety brakes, they would still be in use today.
Ethanol became mandatory in gasoline around 2010. Neither of the two
old saws required carburetor rebuilds until somewhat after 2010. Since
2010, I've rebuilt both carbs twice. I didn't want to do it again, so
I donated the saws. Please don't tell me that old chainsaws wear out.
I take good care of mine and they last for a long time.

It's raining, so no chain sawing today.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, January 22, 2021 at 12:39:55 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 9:21:26 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 15:47:29 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

in re fuel-
Yes I hear that complaint (& more) from small-engine owners
regularly. Others just buy no-ethanol premium actual
gasoline.
I just bought a 1/2 gallon of Stihl pre-mix fuel for my best chain saw
(Stihl MS180) for $16. That's 8 times the cost of automotive gas.
Ouch:
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/automotive-rv-and-marine/fluids-and-lubrication/lubricants/4000289
I'm getting tired of rebuilding carburetors every 2 years, even if I
drain the tank and carb when storing the saws.
Do you know any classic car or motorcycle
gearheads/ They'll know where to buy gasoline. AVGAS is
harder in that you both have to know someone and there's a
security problem as well.
Thanks. I know one of each type. I didn't think of asking and I'll
give it a try.

What I did exactly once was to remove the ethanol from the gas by
adding an exact amount of water, shake well, let the water/alcohol mix
settle to the bottom, and drain water/alcohol mix from the bottom of
the bottle. I made about 3 gallons at a time. It was way too much
work for just my saws.

Instructional videos on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=remove+ethanol+from+gasoline

I initially made a few mistakes which made the ethanol free gas run
badly and still gum up the carburetor. However, the ethanol wasn't
the problem. The additives in todays gas are just as bad or worse for
the carb than ethanol. This video covers most of the problems with
benzene and olefins:
"The Truth About Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
(10:14)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo

At this point, I've given up and am buying expensive pre-mixed fuel.
It is possible to make a carb diaphragms and gaskets that don't get
hardened by ethanol. Maybe my next chain saw will be fuel injected or
run on propane.

You do understand that buy gas over the lifetime of that chainsaw at
prices like that far offsets using regular gasoline and buying a new
saw as yours wears out don't you?
No, I don't understand because you didn't bother to provide any proof,
references, or calculations to demonstrate your opinion. I typically
buy used chainsaws and rebuild them, but we'll use new prices. My
Stihl MS280 cost me about $200. Depending on the saw, I might burn
through about 3 gallons of gasoline per year per saw or about $12/year
in regular gas. Cost of the equivalent Stihl Motomix would be $96 in
1/2 gallon cans (because the shelf life of Motomix is only 2 years).
Therefore, the difference in fuel costs would be:
$32/year - $12/year = $20/year added cost for fuel.
If I ran on automobile fuel and saved the $20 to buy a new saw, it
would take me:
$200 / $20 = 10 years
to collect enough money for a new saw. If I throw in the $15 cost of
a carb rebuild kit (including gas filter, air filter, gas line, etc)
every 2 years with automotive gas, the break even time would be even
later. Spending a little extra on Motomix to avoid downtime and carb
rebuilds is well worth it.

As for wearing out my saws, most of them are quite old:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/
I've added more saws since the photos were taken. I've donated all
the Homelite EZ saws in the photos. Two were running. I recall
buying both new in about 1975 making them about 45 years old. Except
for the lack of safety brakes, they would still be in use today.
Ethanol became mandatory in gasoline around 2010. Neither of the two
old saws required carburetor rebuilds until somewhat after 2010. Since
2010, I've rebuilt both carbs twice. I didn't want to do it again, so
I donated the saws. Please don't tell me that old chainsaws wear out.
I take good care of mine and they last for a long time.

It's raining, so no chain sawing today.

Jeff, seriously now, do you go through chainsaws more than once every 10 years? Do you think that top grade gas has alcohol in it? Top grade Shell only has 5% ethanol. Do you really think that makes a measurable difference in the lifespan of a chainsaw motor? I think that you just made my point for me. The fact that you buy used and rebuild only makes the difference in cost of gas vs. cost of saw that much less. I have to say, I really don't know where you're coming from. The world operates in reality and not best wishes. Stumblebum Slocomb hasn't ever added one single thing to this group. Frank used to but long ago decided that he would give that up to attack me because I was self educated and was successful whereas he put a great deal of effort into his own education and was not. At least Jobst had the decency to be ashamed of the things he did because I corrected his actions riding with beginners and his coarse attempts at telling us how electronics worked. (Geez, like how difficult was it to understand adding the number of wheel circumferences and converting to miles?)

Concerning FARMS - Looking at the national numbers of farms shows that most people have farms of 40 acres or less. In California when you registered land for a farm it was in 40 acre plots until the farm land started being used up and politics came into play. Also there was the case such as my cousin in Tracy who rents out her land to the neighbor farmer who has bought all of the automation to allow him to plant and harvest tomatoes. Then farmers resorted to buying up adjoining farms as people wanted less work which they could achieve in cities. Also there was the case such as my cousin in Tracy who rents out her land to the neighbor farmer who has bought all of the automation to allow him to plant and harvest tomatoes. Since you cannot plant tomatoes two years in a row, he plants and harvests other crops in between. In the old days that was hay (alfalfa) for the horses and cows - horses for pulling the farm implements and cows for milk and meat. Now it is usually other sorts of vegetable crops. And there isn't a large variety because to farm a crop you have to know how to do that. You don't see a 10 acre farmer growing Ginger because it isn't a crop that American farmers are familiar with. But winter and summer squash, nowadays peppers and bell peppers are very common as are cucumbers and lettuce which is an early season harvest. Meat cattle are ranched in the bay area still on 10 acre plots. Meat USED to be cleaned and skinned and sold to butcher shops but that has become mostly a large scale industry now but small local butchers are still in business. There is one I go to in Castro Valley. Another a mile away but he has too much competition with the supermarkets and now seals everything into plastic one-portion airproof heavy plastic casing.

Farmers markets are, despite the morons around here, USUALLY farmers or their hands who are allowed to take a portion of the harvest to sell to augment their income. Yes, the prices are pretty similar to those of supermarkets and yes, the produce is generally the stuff that the supermarkets wouldn't buy because of irregularities but it is FRESH off of the farm and not something that has sat on the shelves for two weeks after the week it took to be trucked in and unpacked from the loading dock.

They still have the old bar in Castro Valley that used to have a hitching post out in front of where the cowboys used to come into town on Saturday night to carouse. Now the hitching post is gone. And the lockdown probably put them out of business.

There are not many large farms in California but there are a few. It used to be that the large one's farmed rice because the land doesn't farm potatoes well but that takes a lot of water and the cities now steal all of the California water. In the Great Plains coops and corporate farming over 100's of thousands of acres are common to grow vast amounts of corn and soybeans for the rest of the world and that VASTLY offsets so-called "average farm size". Corn is strictly a new world plant and yet corn such as polenta and tortilla flour are used ALL over the world. Are you people going to grow up some time? When I say that I came from a family that was dirt poor I'm serious. The farmers had dirt floors in their homes because they didn't have the money to raise them off of the ground. It was a ****ing luxury to have linoleum on the floor to keep your feet from getting dirty and keep clean sheets to sleep in and before you got your shoes on.

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 12:39:46 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 9:21:26 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2021 15:47:29 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

in re fuel-
Yes I hear that complaint (& more) from small-engine owners
regularly. Others just buy no-ethanol premium actual
gasoline.
I just bought a 1/2 gallon of Stihl pre-mix fuel for my best chain saw
(Stihl MS180) for $16. That's 8 times the cost of automotive gas.
Ouch:
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/automotive-rv-and-marine/fluids-and-lubrication/lubricants/4000289
I'm getting tired of rebuilding carburetors every 2 years, even if I
drain the tank and carb when storing the saws.
Do you know any classic car or motorcycle
gearheads/ They'll know where to buy gasoline. AVGAS is
harder in that you both have to know someone and there's a
security problem as well.
Thanks. I know one of each type. I didn't think of asking and I'll
give it a try.

What I did exactly once was to remove the ethanol from the gas by
adding an exact amount of water, shake well, let the water/alcohol mix
settle to the bottom, and drain water/alcohol mix from the bottom of
the bottle. I made about 3 gallons at a time. It was way too much
work for just my saws.

Instructional videos on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=remove+ethanol+from+gasoline

I initially made a few mistakes which made the ethanol free gas run
badly and still gum up the carburetor. However, the ethanol wasn't
the problem. The additives in todays gas are just as bad or worse for
the carb than ethanol. This video covers most of the problems with
benzene and olefins:
"The Truth About Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
(10:14)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo

At this point, I've given up and am buying expensive pre-mixed fuel.
It is possible to make a carb diaphragms and gaskets that don't get
hardened by ethanol. Maybe my next chain saw will be fuel injected or
run on propane.

You do understand that buy gas over the lifetime of that chainsaw at
prices like that far offsets using regular gasoline and buying a new
saw as yours wears out don't you?

No, I don't understand because you didn't bother to provide any proof,
references, or calculations to demonstrate your opinion. I typically
buy used chainsaws and rebuild them, but we'll use new prices. My
Stihl MS280 cost me about $200. Depending on the saw, I might burn
through about 3 gallons of gasoline per year per saw or about $12/year
in regular gas. Cost of the equivalent Stihl Motomix would be $96 in
1/2 gallon cans (because the shelf life of Motomix is only 2 years).
Therefore, the difference in fuel costs would be:
$32/year - $12/year = $20/year added cost for fuel.
If I ran on automobile fuel and saved the $20 to buy a new saw, it
would take me:
$200 / $20 = 10 years
to collect enough money for a new saw. If I throw in the $15 cost of
a carb rebuild kit (including gas filter, air filter, gas line, etc)
every 2 years with automotive gas, the break even time would be even
later. Spending a little extra on Motomix to avoid downtime and carb
rebuilds is well worth it.

As for wearing out my saws, most of them are quite old:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/
I've added more saws since the photos were taken. I've donated all
the Homelite EZ saws in the photos. Two were running. I recall
buying both new in about 1975 making them about 45 years old. Except
for the lack of safety brakes, they would still be in use today.
Ethanol became mandatory in gasoline around 2010. Neither of the two
old saws required carburetor rebuilds until somewhat after 2010. Since
2010, I've rebuilt both carbs twice. I didn't want to do it again, so
I donated the saws. Please don't tell me that old chainsaws wear out.
I take good care of mine and they last for a long time.

It's raining, so no chain sawing today.

But, one might ask, does one have to have a chain saw? My grandfather
cut all the wood necessary to heat his house through a New England
winter by hand... Average low temperature December - February = 10
degrees(F)

It only takes time. And think of the exercise that one gets and
everybody knows that exercise is good for you :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 15:35:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Jeff, seriously now, do you go through chainsaws more than
once every 10 years?

What does "go through" mean to you? If we limit the replacements to
engine related failures, my guess is that I've replaced two saws in
about 50 years due to engine failure. Homelite XL12 and a Stihl
010AV. Both failed when I loaned a saw to a friend, who somehow
managed to either forget to put oil in the gas, or didn't add enough.
In one case, I didn't bother fixing the saw and just sold it for
parts. In the 2nd case, I tore it apart, cleaned off the piston,
replaced the rings, and polished the cylinder to remove the scoring
marks. Compression was on the low end of acceptable (120 psi) but it
ran ok. Does this fit your description of "go through" or would you
prefer that I add various mechanical failures, like dropping the saw
from a tree?

Do you think that top grade gas has alcohol in it? Top grade Shell
only has 5% ethanol.

Did you think that there's only one top grade of Shell "premium" gas?
Try to be specific. Shell sells several top grade fuels in US.
There's V-Power, V-Power 93, and Shell 91. In Canada, there's V-Power
Nitro+ and Clearflex, each with radically varying amounts of ethanol.
https://askinglot.com/is-there-ethanol-in-shell-premium-gas
Kindly pick out the one where you found 5% ethanol.

You might find this handy for calculating the minimum percentage of
ethanol required in California gasoline:
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/gasoline-frequently-asked-questions
How much ethanol is in the gasoline I buy in California?
Currently most gasoline contains 10 percent ethanol by volume.
I can't decode the minimum percent ethanol required with the
information given. However, you should have no problem grinding the
numbers to substantiate your claims.

Do you really think that makes a measurable difference in the
lifespan of a chainsaw motor?

That's odd. You previously mumbled:
You do understand that buy gas over the lifetime of that
chainsaw at prices like that far offsets using regular
gasoline and buying a new saw as yours wears out don't you?
If you now claim that using ethanol in has no effect on the life span
of the chainsaw motor, then I could use some help. Could you
translate your assertion into something that I can understand? Do you
include carburetor failure as part of motor life span? Does detuning
the carburetor with "gum" deposits constitute a motor life span
failure?

I again suggest that you watch this video:
"The Truth About Why Gas Station Fuel Is Bad For Small Engines"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvps2gF0Sdo (10:14)
It explains a few things about how various additives (not just
ethanol) in your fuel can damage your chainsaw.

I think that you just made my point for me.

Umm... what was your point? I think we were discussing L&M Urban
headlights. Oh wait... Jay mentioned he had to fix the carburetor on
his leaf blower. Andrew suggest I try to buy ethanol free fuel from
classic car and motorcycle enthusiasts. I replied that I've tried
removing the ethanol. You jumped in and declared "You do understand
that buy gas over the lifetime... etc", without any substantiation.
You then went on to announce several "facts". Now, please tell me,
which point did I make for you?

The fact that you buy used and rebuild only makes the
difference in cost of gas vs. cost of saw that much less.

You didn't read my calculations. I indicated that I was using the new
price of my Stihl MS180 as an example. To be more specific, I did buy
this saw used if you consider having about 1 hr of operation
sufficient to be considered used. A customer returned the saw to the
dealer in obviously used condition after mangling the bar and chain.
The dealer gave me a substantial discount. I replaced the 0.043
narrow bar and chain with a more standard 0.050 gauge. Good as new
methinks. Total cost was about $175 vs $200 for new. Feel free to
recalculate using whichever number you might less offensive. (Note: I
screwed up in my previous posting. My saw is an MS180, not an MS280).

I have to say, I really don't know where you're coming from. The
world operates in reality and not best wishes.

True. Best wishes living in the reality of your own creation.

The rest deleted because it had nothing to do with whatever topic
we're currently discussing. Please start a new thread and refrain
from using my postings as a launching pad for your attacks on others.
Incidentally, I visited the local hardware store today:
http://www.scarboroughlumber.com
They usually have about 12 Stihl chainsaws on display and about 10
more in the back room. Almost all of them had been sold including the
back room stock. The only Stihl chainsaws left were two arborist
saws, which were not really suitable for clearing large trees. Oddly,
the nearby Husqvarna display still had all 12 saws on display.
Apparently none had been sold. Methinks there's a lesson here.

Also incidentally, I overhead a customer ask the clerk if they had any
MERV 13 furnace filters. They didn't and probably won't for a very
long time. It seems that MERV 13 furnace filters use the same
polypropylene filter material as N95 masks.
https://www.airfilterusa.com/commercial-industrial/air-filter-media/face-mask-filter-media
https://www.homedepot.com/s/merv%252013%2520air%2520filter?NCNI-5
Notice that Home Depot is out all MERV 13 filters.
--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 08:53:25 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But, one might ask, does one have to have a chain saw?

I still have 3 or more bow saws, somewhere. I also have 2 axes, 2
splitting mauls, and a several wedges. I used them for a while when I
moved into my house in the woods in 1973. I was 48 years younger, in
far better condition, and more than willing to do stupid things. My
first year was a disaster. I was barely able to collect about a 1/4
cord of soaking wet or green dead fall. I couldn't drop even a small
tree with axe, rope, wedge, sledge, and sweat. Even the pot belly
wood burner that came with the house was useless and leaked. I ended
up buying a cord of "seasoned oak", which turned out to have been cut
and split a few days before, from the biggest firewood crook in the
valley.

Fast forward about 4 years, and I bought a proper wood burner:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/wood-burner.jpg
bought a not so proper used chain saw (Homelite XL12), got some
friendly instruction on how to use it, but didn't quite live happily
ever after. Since I was gone to work for 5 days per week, the heating
requirements were only for evenings and weekends. Two cords per year
were sufficient. The problem was I couldn't produce 2 cords on my
limited time of only weekends. That was compounded by owning a series
of automotive maintenance headaches, that required that I spend some
time under the car every weekend. I could barely do a cord. So, I
cut some, and bought some firewood. I could not have done it without
a proper chain saw.

I'll just briefly mention that I was more interested in fixing and
rebuilding chain saws than using them. This worked out nicely since
the local tree butchers would leave their saws with me in Jan-Feb (the
wettest time of the year here) and leave for Hawaii, while I took some
time off from work to rebuild their chainsaws. Of course, they paid
me with seasoned dry firewood. I'll confess to making a few big
mistakes, but survived.

Incidentally, most of my neighbors followed in my initial footsteps.
The first thing almost everyone does when they move into the
neighborhood is buy a chainsaw. They then attempt to cut, split, and
stack a cord or more of firewood. The next year, they buy their
firewood from a dealer and the chainsaw gets stored in the garage.
After about 4 years, they try to start the saw, which invariably
refuses to start. If it's not crud in the carb, or sawdust in the air
filter, it's 3 year old gas in the tank, which is mostly water. So,
guess who buys their almost new saw for peanuts?

My grandfather
cut all the wood necessary to heat his house through a New England
winter by hand... Average low temperature December - February = 10
degrees(F)

Yeah, I know. He probably also walked 5 miles to school in a
blizzard. In my area, it used to drop below freezing about 10 days
per year. This year, it hasn't gone below about 45F (7.2C). Welcome
to climate change. The only good part is I don't burn as much
firewood.

It only takes time.

I retired at the end of 2020. Before that, it was mostly work full
time during the week and recover on weekends. When I worked for
wages, spare time had to be stolen. When I worked for myself, spare
time had to be stolen from myself. So much for the benefits of
self-employment.

Firewood (delivered but not stacked) is currently $450/cord. After
this weeks storm, my guess is I have about a cord or more on the
ground. It was much easier to work a few extra days for money, and
buy my firewood, than to spend the same amount of time sawing
firewood.

And think of the exercise that one gets and
everybody knows that exercise is good for you :-)

That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger.
Exercise is for the fit. With several major medical conditions, I'm
not even close to fit. However, I do try, which is why I was dead
tired yesterday.



--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 1/23/2021 3:13 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 08:53:25 +0700, John B.
wrote:

And think of the exercise that one gets and
everybody knows that exercise is good for you :-)

That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger.
Exercise is for the fit. With several major medical conditions, I'm
not even close to fit. However, I do try, which is why I was dead
tired yesterday.

Sadly, I'm aware of an increasingly delicate balance. Exercise is
necessary but it's now easy to overdo it. And the limits on "overdo"
grow tighter every year. :-/

Keep moving!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 00:13:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 08:53:25 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But, one might ask, does one have to have a chain saw?

I still have 3 or more bow saws, somewhere. I also have 2 axes, 2
splitting mauls, and a several wedges. I used them for a while when I
moved into my house in the woods in 1973. I was 48 years younger, in
far better condition, and more than willing to do stupid things. My
first year was a disaster. I was barely able to collect about a 1/4
cord of soaking wet or green dead fall. I couldn't drop even a small
tree with axe, rope, wedge, sledge, and sweat. Even the pot belly
wood burner that came with the house was useless and leaked. I ended
up buying a cord of "seasoned oak", which turned out to have been cut
and split a few days before, from the biggest firewood crook in the
valley.

Fast forward about 4 years, and I bought a proper wood burner:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/wood-burner.jpg
bought a not so proper used chain saw (Homelite XL12), got some
friendly instruction on how to use it, but didn't quite live happily
ever after. Since I was gone to work for 5 days per week, the heating
requirements were only for evenings and weekends. Two cords per year
were sufficient. The problem was I couldn't produce 2 cords on my
limited time of only weekends. That was compounded by owning a series
of automotive maintenance headaches, that required that I spend some
time under the car every weekend. I could barely do a cord. So, I
cut some, and bought some firewood. I could not have done it without
a proper chain saw.

I'll just briefly mention that I was more interested in fixing and
rebuilding chain saws than using them. This worked out nicely since
the local tree butchers would leave their saws with me in Jan-Feb (the
wettest time of the year here) and leave for Hawaii, while I took some
time off from work to rebuild their chainsaws. Of course, they paid
me with seasoned dry firewood. I'll confess to making a few big
mistakes, but survived.

Incidentally, most of my neighbors followed in my initial footsteps.
The first thing almost everyone does when they move into the
neighborhood is buy a chainsaw. They then attempt to cut, split, and
stack a cord or more of firewood. The next year, they buy their
firewood from a dealer and the chainsaw gets stored in the garage.
After about 4 years, they try to start the saw, which invariably
refuses to start. If it's not crud in the carb, or sawdust in the air
filter, it's 3 year old gas in the tank, which is mostly water. So,
guess who buys their almost new saw for peanuts?

My grandfather
cut all the wood necessary to heat his house through a New England
winter by hand... Average low temperature December - February = 10
degrees(F)

Yeah, I know. He probably also walked 5 miles to school in a
blizzard. In my area, it used to drop below freezing about 10 days
per year. This year, it hasn't gone below about 45F (7.2C). Welcome
to climate change. The only good part is I don't burn as much
firewood.

Nope, I only 1 mile :-) My father attended the only school in that
part of the village and it was only about 1 mile from the old
homestead :-) I've seen the foundation of the school, all that's left
and it was a 1 room school with 1 teacher.

But he actually did cut all the wood necessary to heat a two story,
two family house all by himself. He owned what was called a "wood lot"
up on the hill near the old family properties and cut and split the
wood and trucked it down to the house with a Model A pickup. It took
on the average about a month but as the season's chickens had been
sold, snow was on the ground, and nothing happening until spring, what
else was there to do?

It only takes time.

I retired at the end of 2020. Before that, it was mostly work full
time during the week and recover on weekends. When I worked for
wages, spare time had to be stolen. When I worked for myself, spare
time had to be stolen from myself. So much for the benefits of
self-employment.

Not to disparage your efforts but my father worked in the Post Office
6 days a week and still had time to "farm", well with the help of two
pre-teen kids and a wife. We always had a cow and two pigs as well as
enough chickens to supply eggs and an occasional Sunday dinner.

Firewood (delivered but not stacked) is currently $450/cord. After
this weeks storm, my guess is I have about a cord or more on the
ground. It was much easier to work a few extra days for money, and
buy my firewood, than to spend the same amount of time sawing
firewood.

And think of the exercise that one gets and
everybody knows that exercise is good for you :-)

That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger.
Exercise is for the fit. With several major medical conditions, I'm
not even close to fit. However, I do try, which is why I was dead
tired yesterday.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/23/2021 5:22 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 00:13:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 08:53:25 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But, one might ask, does one have to have a chain saw?

I still have 3 or more bow saws, somewhere. I also have 2 axes, 2
splitting mauls, and a several wedges. I used them for a while when I
moved into my house in the woods in 1973. I was 48 years younger, in
far better condition, and more than willing to do stupid things. My
first year was a disaster. I was barely able to collect about a 1/4
cord of soaking wet or green dead fall. I couldn't drop even a small
tree with axe, rope, wedge, sledge, and sweat. Even the pot belly
wood burner that came with the house was useless and leaked. I ended
up buying a cord of "seasoned oak", which turned out to have been cut
and split a few days before, from the biggest firewood crook in the
valley.

Fast forward about 4 years, and I bought a proper wood burner:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/wood-burner.jpg
bought a not so proper used chain saw (Homelite XL12), got some
friendly instruction on how to use it, but didn't quite live happily
ever after. Since I was gone to work for 5 days per week, the heating
requirements were only for evenings and weekends. Two cords per year
were sufficient. The problem was I couldn't produce 2 cords on my
limited time of only weekends. That was compounded by owning a series
of automotive maintenance headaches, that required that I spend some
time under the car every weekend. I could barely do a cord. So, I
cut some, and bought some firewood. I could not have done it without
a proper chain saw.

I'll just briefly mention that I was more interested in fixing and
rebuilding chain saws than using them. This worked out nicely since
the local tree butchers would leave their saws with me in Jan-Feb (the
wettest time of the year here) and leave for Hawaii, while I took some
time off from work to rebuild their chainsaws. Of course, they paid
me with seasoned dry firewood. I'll confess to making a few big
mistakes, but survived.

Incidentally, most of my neighbors followed in my initial footsteps.
The first thing almost everyone does when they move into the
neighborhood is buy a chainsaw. They then attempt to cut, split, and
stack a cord or more of firewood. The next year, they buy their
firewood from a dealer and the chainsaw gets stored in the garage.
After about 4 years, they try to start the saw, which invariably
refuses to start. If it's not crud in the carb, or sawdust in the air
filter, it's 3 year old gas in the tank, which is mostly water. So,
guess who buys their almost new saw for peanuts?

My grandfather
cut all the wood necessary to heat his house through a New England
winter by hand... Average low temperature December - February = 10
degrees(F)

Yeah, I know. He probably also walked 5 miles to school in a
blizzard. In my area, it used to drop below freezing about 10 days
per year. This year, it hasn't gone below about 45F (7.2C). Welcome
to climate change. The only good part is I don't burn as much
firewood.

Nope, I only 1 mile :-) My father attended the only school in that
part of the village and it was only about 1 mile from the old
homestead :-) I've seen the foundation of the school, all that's left
and it was a 1 room school with 1 teacher.

But he actually did cut all the wood necessary to heat a two story,
two family house all by himself. He owned what was called a "wood lot"
up on the hill near the old family properties and cut and split the
wood and trucked it down to the house with a Model A pickup. It took
on the average about a month but as the season's chickens had been
sold, snow was on the ground, and nothing happening until spring, what
else was there to do?

It only takes time.

I retired at the end of 2020. Before that, it was mostly work full
time during the week and recover on weekends. When I worked for
wages, spare time had to be stolen. When I worked for myself, spare
time had to be stolen from myself. So much for the benefits of
self-employment.

Not to disparage your efforts but my father worked in the Post Office
6 days a week and still had time to "farm", well with the help of two
pre-teen kids and a wife. We always had a cow and two pigs as well as
enough chickens to supply eggs and an occasional Sunday dinner.

Firewood (delivered but not stacked) is currently $450/cord. After
this weeks storm, my guess is I have about a cord or more on the
ground. It was much easier to work a few extra days for money, and
buy my firewood, than to spend the same amount of time sawing
firewood.

And think of the exercise that one gets and
everybody knows that exercise is good for you :-)

That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger.
Exercise is for the fit. With several major medical conditions, I'm
not even close to fit. However, I do try, which is why I was dead
tired yesterday.


And through the 1960s farmers felled trees for sale off the
ridges with horses & chain once the snow was deep enough for
that work. Except for a break in January when tobacco is
cased, there weren't big time demands in winter.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 10:54:01 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/23/2021 5:22 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 00:13:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 08:53:25 +0700, John B.
wrote:

But, one might ask, does one have to have a chain saw?

I still have 3 or more bow saws, somewhere. I also have 2 axes, 2
splitting mauls, and a several wedges. I used them for a while when I
moved into my house in the woods in 1973. I was 48 years younger, in
far better condition, and more than willing to do stupid things. My
first year was a disaster. I was barely able to collect about a 1/4
cord of soaking wet or green dead fall. I couldn't drop even a small
tree with axe, rope, wedge, sledge, and sweat. Even the pot belly
wood burner that came with the house was useless and leaked. I ended
up buying a cord of "seasoned oak", which turned out to have been cut
and split a few days before, from the biggest firewood crook in the
valley.

Fast forward about 4 years, and I bought a proper wood burner:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/home/wood-burner.jpg
bought a not so proper used chain saw (Homelite XL12), got some
friendly instruction on how to use it, but didn't quite live happily
ever after. Since I was gone to work for 5 days per week, the heating
requirements were only for evenings and weekends. Two cords per year
were sufficient. The problem was I couldn't produce 2 cords on my
limited time of only weekends. That was compounded by owning a series
of automotive maintenance headaches, that required that I spend some
time under the car every weekend. I could barely do a cord. So, I
cut some, and bought some firewood. I could not have done it without
a proper chain saw.

I'll just briefly mention that I was more interested in fixing and
rebuilding chain saws than using them. This worked out nicely since
the local tree butchers would leave their saws with me in Jan-Feb (the
wettest time of the year here) and leave for Hawaii, while I took some
time off from work to rebuild their chainsaws. Of course, they paid
me with seasoned dry firewood. I'll confess to making a few big
mistakes, but survived.

Incidentally, most of my neighbors followed in my initial footsteps.
The first thing almost everyone does when they move into the
neighborhood is buy a chainsaw. They then attempt to cut, split, and
stack a cord or more of firewood. The next year, they buy their
firewood from a dealer and the chainsaw gets stored in the garage.
After about 4 years, they try to start the saw, which invariably
refuses to start. If it's not crud in the carb, or sawdust in the air
filter, it's 3 year old gas in the tank, which is mostly water. So,
guess who buys their almost new saw for peanuts?

My grandfather
cut all the wood necessary to heat his house through a New England
winter by hand... Average low temperature December - February = 10
degrees(F)

Yeah, I know. He probably also walked 5 miles to school in a
blizzard. In my area, it used to drop below freezing about 10 days
per year. This year, it hasn't gone below about 45F (7.2C). Welcome
to climate change. The only good part is I don't burn as much
firewood.

Nope, I only 1 mile :-) My father attended the only school in that
part of the village and it was only about 1 mile from the old
homestead :-) I've seen the foundation of the school, all that's left
and it was a 1 room school with 1 teacher.

But he actually did cut all the wood necessary to heat a two story,
two family house all by himself. He owned what was called a "wood lot"
up on the hill near the old family properties and cut and split the
wood and trucked it down to the house with a Model A pickup. It took
on the average about a month but as the season's chickens had been
sold, snow was on the ground, and nothing happening until spring, what
else was there to do?

It only takes time.

I retired at the end of 2020. Before that, it was mostly work full
time during the week and recover on weekends. When I worked for
wages, spare time had to be stolen. When I worked for myself, spare
time had to be stolen from myself. So much for the benefits of
self-employment.

Not to disparage your efforts but my father worked in the Post Office
6 days a week and still had time to "farm", well with the help of two
pre-teen kids and a wife. We always had a cow and two pigs as well as
enough chickens to supply eggs and an occasional Sunday dinner.

Firewood (delivered but not stacked) is currently $450/cord. After
this weeks storm, my guess is I have about a cord or more on the
ground. It was much easier to work a few extra days for money, and
buy my firewood, than to spend the same amount of time sawing
firewood.

And think of the exercise that one gets and
everybody knows that exercise is good for you :-)

That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger.
Exercise is for the fit. With several major medical conditions, I'm
not even close to fit. However, I do try, which is why I was dead
tired yesterday.


And through the 1960s farmers felled trees for sale off the
ridges with horses & chain once the snow was deep enough for
that work. Except for a break in January when tobacco is
cased, there weren't big time demands in winter.

Not too much tobacco north of Massachusetts, but you are right, not
much to do in the winter except feed the chickens and milk the cow(s).

The state fairs all used to have a section for "winter farm work"
although I don't remember that they called it that. I remember
watching "nail making" and cedar shake splitting, all gone today and
probably nobody was actually doing it as "work" even in those days but
it was sort of interesting to see just how self relent the "old folks"
really were.
--
Cheers,

John B.