8 speed STI levers

I recall in an earlier thread a poster requested information on
replacing an 8 speed Shimano Ultegra STI lever. These are no longer
manufactured - only 9 speed is available. His concern was the cost of
an upgrade to a complete 9 speed setup and was quite happy with his 8
speed casette, front & read derailleur and so on. The general
concensus was that his only option was the 8 speed Sora STI lever.

I would like to suggest that you can use an 9 speed STI lever with an
8 speed cassette and rear & front derailleur set up with the following
reasoning:

It is the cable tension connecting the STI lever to the rear
derailleur that governs the amount of travel associated with the rear
derailleur for each click of the STI lever. Once you have adjusted the
rear derailleur adjustment bolt to give the correct cable tension so
that the chain moves from the 8th (top sprocket) to the 7th sprocket
then everything should be ok. Each subsequent click of the lever will
move the chain up to the next sprocket. When the chain reaches the 1st
sprocket (lowest sprocket) you still in theory have one click left on
the 9 speed STI lever. However you will not be able to click the lever
as the rear derailleur is prevented from travelling any further by
virtue of the inward adjustment bolt and this prevents you from using
that extra 9th click.

Now I have not verified this with a 9 speed STI/8 Speed cassette
combination as I still only use 8 speed STI levers but I previously
used an 8 speed SIS down tube lever with a 7 speed cassette using the
same principle without any problems.

Can anyone suggest why my theory on 9 speed STI/8 speed cassette would
not work ?

R

It will work okay with the 7/8 spd combo as the spacing between the
individual gears on the cassette is the same (the 8-spd cassette is one gear
wider) but not an 8/9 combo as the spacing is smaller with the 9 spd.
Basically the 8-spd cassette and 9-spd cassettes are the same width, it's
just the spacing between gears which differs - this is why the 9 spd chain
is narrower etc etc.

The 9 spd STI levers are designed to index the smaller distance between
gears. It's a pain but that's life....!!

FWIW - you an use many 8-spd components with 9-spd set-ups but not the STIs.

Boz

"Rik O'Shea" wrote in message
om...
I recall in an earlier thread a poster requested information on
replacing an 8 speed Shimano Ultegra STI lever. These are no longer
manufactured - only 9 speed is available. His concern was the cost of
an upgrade to a complete 9 speed setup and was quite happy with his 8
speed casette, front & read derailleur and so on. The general
concensus was that his only option was the 8 speed Sora STI lever.

I would like to suggest that you can use an 9 speed STI lever with an
8 speed cassette and rear & front derailleur set up with the following
reasoning:

It is the cable tension connecting the STI lever to the rear
derailleur that governs the amount of travel associated with the rear
derailleur for each click of the STI lever. Once you have adjusted the
rear derailleur adjustment bolt to give the correct cable tension so
that the chain moves from the 8th (top sprocket) to the 7th sprocket
then everything should be ok. Each subsequent click of the lever will
move the chain up to the next sprocket. When the chain reaches the 1st
sprocket (lowest sprocket) you still in theory have one click left on
the 9 speed STI lever. However you will not be able to click the lever
as the rear derailleur is prevented from travelling any further by
virtue of the inward adjustment bolt and this prevents you from using
that extra 9th click.

Now I have not verified this with a 9 speed STI/8 Speed cassette
combination as I still only use 8 speed STI levers but I previously
used an 8 speed SIS down tube lever with a 7 speed cassette using the
same principle without any problems.

Can anyone suggest why my theory on 9 speed STI/8 speed cassette would
not work ?

R

Rik O'Shea wrote:
It is the cable tension connecting the STI lever to the rear
derailleur that governs the amount of travel associated with the rear
derailleur for each click of the STI lever.

No it's not. It is the ratchet or cam or whatever mechanism is used
inside the shifter that governs the amount of cable pulled per click.

Altering cable tension only tunes the position of the derailleur. It
doesn't alter the amount it moves per click. So even if you get it in the
correct position for one gear, it will be out with the next click.

9-speed spacing is different to 8-speed so either different shifters are
required or some alternative solution. It can't be done simply by
adjusting the cable.

~PB

(Rik O'Shea) wrote in message . com...

I would like to suggest that you can use an 9 speed STI lever with an
8 speed cassette and rear & front derailleur set up with the following
reasoning:

It is the cable tension connecting the STI lever to the rear
derailleur that governs the amount of travel
----------------

nope... its not the tension, its the travel per-click

the 8 and 9 speed shifters move the cable different amounts per click.
its close, but not close enough for good shifting over the whole
range. the 8 and 9 speed cassettes are the same overall width; hence
the spacing is closer, hence the shifters are different. So, you need
at least a new shifter, cassette, and chain to move from 8 to 9 speed.

I lucked out and was able to find a used 8sp shimano600 set for $40.
Next upgrade I'll probably have to get shifter, cassette, chain... for
best results I might even think about crankset since the front spacing
with the narrow chain would shift better with official 9sp gear, but
that would be far less sensitive. at that point though, its not much
more to get a new bike and convert the old frame to a fixed-gear or
something else.

d

"Rik O'Shea" wrote in message
om...

I recall in an earlier thread a poster requested information on
replacing an 8 speed Shimano Ultegra STI lever. These are no longer
manufactured - only 9 speed is available. His concern was the cost of
an upgrade to a complete 9 speed setup and was quite happy with his 8
speed casette, front & read derailleur and so on. The general
concensus was that his only option was the 8 speed Sora STI lever.

You don't need a "complete 9 speed setup." The derailers work the same. All
you need is a 9sp shifter, a 9sp cassette, and a 9sp chain. The shifter is the
expensive part. When it comes time to replace a shifter, spend the extra 30-40
bucks for a 9sp cassette/chain at the same time, and be done with it.

I would like to suggest that you can use an 9 speed STI lever with an
8 speed cassette and rear & front derailleur set up with the following
reasoning:

It is the cable tension connecting the STI lever to the rear
derailleur that governs the amount of travel associated with the rear
derailleur for each click of the STI lever. Once you have adjusted the
rear derailleur adjustment bolt to give the correct cable tension so
that the chain moves from the 8th (top sprocket) to the 7th sprocket
then everything should be ok. Each subsequent click of the lever will
move the chain up to the next sprocket. When the chain reaches the 1st
sprocket (lowest sprocket) you still in theory have one click left on
the 9 speed STI lever. However you will not be able to click the lever
as the rear derailleur is prevented from travelling any further by
virtue of the inward adjustment bolt and this prevents you from using
that extra 9th click.

Now I have not verified this with a 9 speed STI/8 Speed cassette
combination as I still only use 8 speed STI levers but I previously
used an 8 speed SIS down tube lever with a 7 speed cassette using the
same principle without any problems.

Can anyone suggest why my theory on 9 speed STI/8 speed cassette would
not work ?

It very well might, but there's usually no reason to do it. People ran 7sp
cassettes with 8sp setups because 8sp cassettes wouldn't fit on 7sp wheels. But
8sp and 9sp wheels are the same. If you have an 8sp wheel you can just slap on
a 9sp cassette and have everything work perfectly.

Cassettes are available as cheap as $15-16. Shimano HG50, and SRAM cassettes
work just fine. Nashbar/Performance usually have a few on sale, and package
deals with chains as well.

Matt O.

(Rik O'Shea) wrote in message . com...
I would like to suggest that you can use an 9 speed STI lever with an
8 speed cassette and rear & front derailleur set up with the following
reasoning:

It is the cable tension connecting the STI lever to the rear
derailleur that governs the amount of travel associated with the rear
derailleur for each click of the STI lever. Once you have adjusted the
rear derailleur adjustment bolt to give the correct cable tension so
that the chain moves from the 8th (top sprocket) to the 7th sprocket
then everything should be ok. Each subsequent click of the lever will
move the chain up to the next sprocket. When the chain reaches the 1st
sprocket (lowest sprocket) you still in theory have one click left on
the 9 speed STI lever. However you will not be able to click the lever
as the rear derailleur is prevented from travelling any further by
virtue of the inward adjustment bolt and this prevents you from using
that extra 9th click.

Now I have not verified this with a 9 speed STI/8 Speed cassette
combination as I still only use 8 speed STI levers but I previously
used an 8 speed SIS down tube lever with a 7 speed cassette using the
same principle without any problems.

With each shift, a 9 speed STI shifter pulls and retracts less cable
than an 8 speed Ultegra STI. As a result, the amount of 8 speed rear
derailleur movement is less. So it would not work.

It worked for you with 8 speed indexed shifters on a 7 speed cassette
because the amount of cable pull between 8 and 7 speed indexed
shifters is the same. And the spacing between rear cogs is (almost)
the same.

Tom

Thomas Reynolds wrote:
(Rik O'Shea) wrote in message
. com...
I would like to suggest that you can use an 9 speed STI lever with an
8 speed cassette and rear & front derailleur set up with the following
reasoning:

It is the cable tension connecting the STI lever to the rear
derailleur that governs the amount of travel associated with the rear
derailleur for each click of the STI lever. Once you have adjusted the
rear derailleur adjustment bolt to give the correct cable tension so
that the chain moves from the 8th (top sprocket) to the 7th sprocket
then everything should be ok. Each subsequent click of the lever will
move the chain up to the next sprocket. When the chain reaches the 1st
sprocket (lowest sprocket) you still in theory have one click left on
the 9 speed STI lever. However you will not be able to click the lever
as the rear derailleur is prevented from travelling any further by
virtue of the inward adjustment bolt and this prevents you from using
that extra 9th click.

Now I have not verified this with a 9 speed STI/8 Speed cassette
combination as I still only use 8 speed STI levers but I previously
used an 8 speed SIS down tube lever with a 7 speed cassette using the
same principle without any problems.

With each shift, a 9 speed STI shifter pulls and retracts less cable
than an 8 speed Ultegra STI. As a result, the amount of 8 speed rear
derailleur movement is less. So it would not work.
It worked for you with 8 speed indexed shifters on a 7 speed cassette
because the amount of cable pull between 8 and 7 speed indexed shifters
is the same. And the spacing between rear cogs is (almost) the same.
Tom


Shimano Center-to-Center 7 speed spacing is 5 mm, 8 speed is 4.8 mm, and
9 speed is 4.34 mm. You can buy a Shimano 9 speed bar end shifter kit
for around $46 street price. You can shift 8 speed in the friction mode.
When you buy your next chain and cassette, assuming it's a 9 speed, you
switch to index mode. If you really want to stay with 8 speed, there are
a couple of other alternatives: Sachs 8 speed (not Campy) brifters use
4.8 mm indexing. Shimano 8 speed Bar ends also use 4.8 mm indexing.



--
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL USA

--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

The space between the center of each sprocket is more or less the same for 7 and 8 speed,
but for 9 speed, it certainly is less. You cannot use a 9 speed STI lever with an 8 speed
cassette using your example.

Dave