JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit

This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.

On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same.. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.

Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels.. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell.. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.
Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.
Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what.

On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.
Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.
Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what.
I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go.

Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef :
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.
Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.
Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what.
I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go.


OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing.

Lou

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef :
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set.. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.
Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire.. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.
Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what.
I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go.


OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing.

Lou

His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef :
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.
Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.
Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what.
I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go.


OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing.

Lou

His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity.

And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike
really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a
$1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding
comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights?

One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I
can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo
system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world."

Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or
longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and
self satisfaction.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef :
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product:
https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale
from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my
broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles
and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I
couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and
my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on
the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle.
So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to
convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of
these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the
YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could
thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise,
easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a
simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat
tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free
hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or
ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body
with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub
bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I
knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had
soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the
perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail.
That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged
spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it
will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively
expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for
holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and
50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38
mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon
wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any
rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same
performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and
23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.
Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't
know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah.
What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant,
particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments
coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster,
probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very
post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the
Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I
underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty
plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It
is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly
racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing,
rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was
really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a
N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.
Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or
excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone
with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you
should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental
confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com
they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not
heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what.
I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was
knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely
through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to
pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three
bikes to always have a bike ready to go.


OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is
a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing.

Lou

His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling
me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret
ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for
the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering
and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as
compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top.
Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think
manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs
(but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity.

And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike
really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a
$1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding
comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights?

One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I
can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo
system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world."

Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or
longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and
self satisfaction.


Of course not. Diminishing returns is one of the constants of the universe.
Is a $50 steak twice as good as a $25 steak? Is a $1,000,000 Ferrari twice
as good as a $500,000 Jaguar? There exists a continuum of price-value
points because different people have different internal values for a
dollar.

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:06:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef :
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/

I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search.

I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor.

-- Jay Beattie.
Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information.
Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day.

I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe.

I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire.. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard.

-- Jay Beattie.
Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what.
I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go.


OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing.

Lou

His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity.
And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike
really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a
$1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding
comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights?

One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I
can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo
system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world."

Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or
longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and
self satisfaction.

So you never bought a bike that was expensive simply because you wanted it?