Keo vs Shimano road SpD

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 1:09:40 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/17/2020 11:48 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:03:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 3:33:03 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Has anyone used both of these pedals? I have a set of Keo Blades and I was going to install them in place of "Tour de Franc" Keo pedals and much to my surprise and the knowledge of a scale, they weight exactly the same. The Tour de France might have been a couple of grams lighter! And they have a far better release mechanism.

But when I got a set of used but unused Bontrager shoes, they had the SpD cleats on them and they are all hell and gone better to walk in. You don't need to be fumbling around with cleat covers. DuraAce SpD's are expensive as hell but if I didn't have to carry cleat covers around in my back pockets it might be worth it. How do the SpD's compare to the Keos?
O.K., this is not a put down, but don't you have any SPD pedals? I know you have/had a CX bike.

SPDs are the world's greatest dope pedals. Double-sided, so no pedal flipping. You basically just step down and click in. Very easy to get out of and a good reason for using them riding CX or MTB -- if you stall, its easy to panic exit. No skill necessary. I gravel ride and commute in SPDs.

The big difference for me is the shoe and the small platform for pressure distribution. I have some pretty nice lugged-sole SIDI MTB shoes, but they're not as svelte or stiff or good-fitting as my racing shoes, but still stiff enough where I don't think I'm getting pressure spots because of the small size of the SPD platform, but I can feel the smaller platform area. Its more of a feel thing than a problem of any kind. At least theoretically, SPDs give you less support than a Keo Max, which is what I use. For me, the biggest difference is the shoe.

-- Jay Beattie.
This is meant as a put down - don't you know that their road pedals are also called SpD's? https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...ontent=Shimano

Shimano calls their faux-Look design SPD-SL.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buy...spd-vs-spd-sl/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I think that the "wider platform" in today's carbon fiber soles is rather meaningless. The difference to me could be being able to talk in the cleats.

On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 12:09:27 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 17 september 2020 om 19:03:47 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 9:48:13 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:03:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 3:33:03 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Has anyone used both of these pedals? I have a set of Keo Blades and I was going to install them in place of "Tour de Franc" Keo pedals and much to my surprise and the knowledge of a scale, they weight exactly the same. The Tour de France might have been a couple of grams lighter! And they have a far better release mechanism.

But when I got a set of used but unused Bontrager shoes, they had the SpD cleats on them and they are all hell and gone better to walk in. You don't need to be fumbling around with cleat covers. DuraAce SpD's are expensive as hell but if I didn't have to carry cleat covers around in my back pockets it might be worth it. How do the SpD's compare to the Keos?
O.K., this is not a put down, but don't you have any SPD pedals? I know you have/had a CX bike.

SPDs are the world's greatest dope pedals. Double-sided, so no pedal flipping. You basically just step down and click in. Very easy to get out of and a good reason for using them riding CX or MTB -- if you stall, its easy to panic exit. No skill necessary. I gravel ride and commute in SPDs.

The big difference for me is the shoe and the small platform for pressure distribution. I have some pretty nice lugged-sole SIDI MTB shoes, but they're not as svelte or stiff or good-fitting as my racing shoes, but still stiff enough where I don't think I'm getting pressure spots because of the small size of the SPD platform, but I can feel the smaller platform area. Its more of a feel thing than a problem of any kind. At least theoretically, SPDs give you less support than a Keo Max, which is what I use. For me, the biggest difference is the shoe.

-- Jay Beattie.
This is meant as a put down - don't you know that their road pedals are also called SpD's? https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...ontent=Shimano
Actually not. SPDs versus SPD-SLs. SPD is a term universally used to refer to the MTB pedal.

Your post also referred to not needing cleat covers. A SPD-SL aka Shimano road pedal cleat would need a cleat cover, unless you have a rare shoe with giant lugs that surround the cleat. https://tinyurl.com/y5vupnf7 You were talking about walkable cleats, which indicates something other than a Look or Shimano road cleat.

My son has both Look and Shimano road pedals and cleats and prefers Shimano, but I can't recall why.

-- Jay Beattie.

The general name for Shimano pedals is PD (PeDal) followed by a identifier. For road pedals it is R followed by a number and for mountainbikes it is M followed by a number. The road pedals are also known as SPD-SL and the mountain bike pedals just as SPD. SPD-SL cleats are more walkable than Look Keo cleats. The confusion is understandable but Tom is in no position to put someone down who is trying to help him. That is a nasty habit of him.

Lou
It's "Shimano Pedaling Dynamics," and Shimano refers to the MTB pedal as SPD and the road pedal as SPD-SL. https://tinyurl.com/y3nhu4fc Note: https://tinyurl.com/y5qp6v65 I assumed Tom was following that convention, particularly since he was so excited about walkability.

I don't think of any full-sized road cleat as "walkable." https://tinyurl.com/y4nltx4n It may have better pads/traction than the Keo, but it is the same old bulky road cleat. My walkable shoes are SPD MTB shoes with SPD cleats below lugs. If I had to do any significant walking on the Shimano SPD-SLs, I'd get covers. https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Cleat.../dp/B078NNHQV2

I agree that you are correct, but I was speaking about a comparison between Shimano pedals and Look Keo. That should have made it pretty obvious I would think. As for clear covers for those huge SL Cleats - that would completely nullify the reason for changing. The Keo's disadvantage is walking in the cleats. On slick surface you can fall on your butt. The Keo's are a great deal easier to get into than the old Look Delta pedals. The Shimano SL doesn't look any easier than the Delta.

IMO, its six of one, half-dozen of the other. I bet the Shimano pedals are mechanically better than Look, and maybe the cleats are a little less slippery, and maybe entry/exit is better, but I wouldn't switch from Keo to Shimano road pedals just for walkability. All road cleats suck to walk more than a few feet. That's why I commute/shop/goof off in SPD MTB shoes. I think the Shimano product is better though, but I've got all the pedals I need.

-- Jay Beattie.

Op donderdag 17 september 2020 om 21:09:27 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 17 september 2020 om 19:03:47 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 9:48:13 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:03:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 3:33:03 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Has anyone used both of these pedals? I have a set of Keo Blades and I was going to install them in place of "Tour de Franc" Keo pedals and much to my surprise and the knowledge of a scale, they weight exactly the same. The Tour de France might have been a couple of grams lighter! And they have a far better release mechanism.

But when I got a set of used but unused Bontrager shoes, they had the SpD cleats on them and they are all hell and gone better to walk in. You don't need to be fumbling around with cleat covers. DuraAce SpD's are expensive as hell but if I didn't have to carry cleat covers around in my back pockets it might be worth it. How do the SpD's compare to the Keos?
O.K., this is not a put down, but don't you have any SPD pedals? I know you have/had a CX bike.

SPDs are the world's greatest dope pedals. Double-sided, so no pedal flipping. You basically just step down and click in. Very easy to get out of and a good reason for using them riding CX or MTB -- if you stall, its easy to panic exit. No skill necessary. I gravel ride and commute in SPDs..

The big difference for me is the shoe and the small platform for pressure distribution. I have some pretty nice lugged-sole SIDI MTB shoes, but they're not as svelte or stiff or good-fitting as my racing shoes, but still stiff enough where I don't think I'm getting pressure spots because of the small size of the SPD platform, but I can feel the smaller platform area. Its more of a feel thing than a problem of any kind. At least theoretically, SPDs give you less support than a Keo Max, which is what I use. For me, the biggest difference is the shoe.

-- Jay Beattie.
This is meant as a put down - don't you know that their road pedals are also called SpD's? https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...ontent=Shimano
Actually not. SPDs versus SPD-SLs. SPD is a term universally used to refer to the MTB pedal.

Your post also referred to not needing cleat covers. A SPD-SL aka Shimano road pedal cleat would need a cleat cover, unless you have a rare shoe with giant lugs that surround the cleat. https://tinyurl.com/y5vupnf7 You were talking about walkable cleats, which indicates something other than a Look or Shimano road cleat.

My son has both Look and Shimano road pedals and cleats and prefers Shimano, but I can't recall why.

-- Jay Beattie.

The general name for Shimano pedals is PD (PeDal) followed by a identifier. For road pedals it is R followed by a number and for mountainbikes it is M followed by a number. The road pedals are also known as SPD-SL and the mountain bike pedals just as SPD. SPD-SL cleats are more walkable than Look Keo cleats. The confusion is understandable but Tom is in no position to put someone down who is trying to help him. That is a nasty habit of him.

Lou
It's "Shimano Pedaling Dynamics," and Shimano refers to the MTB pedal as SPD and the road pedal as SPD-SL. https://tinyurl.com/y3nhu4fc Note: https://tinyurl.com/y5qp6v65 I assumed Tom was following that convention, particularly since he was so excited about walkability.

I don't think of any full-sized road cleat as "walkable." https://tinyurl..com/y4nltx4n It may have better pads/traction than the Keo, but it is the same old bulky road cleat. My walkable shoes are SPD MTB shoes with SPD cleats below lugs. If I had to do any significant walking on the Shimano SPD-SLs, I'd get covers. https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Cleat.../dp/B078NNHQV2


-- Jay Beattie.


What is that with shoe covers? Is this a US thing? Never see those around here. People who want to walk around here use SPD pedals and shoes.

Lou

On 9/18/2020 2:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 17 september 2020 om 21:09:27 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 17 september 2020 om 19:03:47 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 9:48:13 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:03:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 3:33:03 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Has anyone used both of these pedals? I have a set of Keo Blades and I was going to install them in place of "Tour de Franc" Keo pedals and much to my surprise and the knowledge of a scale, they weight exactly the same. The Tour de France might have been a couple of grams lighter! And they have a far better release mechanism.

But when I got a set of used but unused Bontrager shoes, they had the SpD cleats on them and they are all hell and gone better to walk in. You don't need to be fumbling around with cleat covers. DuraAce SpD's are expensive as hell but if I didn't have to carry cleat covers around in my back pockets it might be worth it. How do the SpD's compare to the Keos?
O.K., this is not a put down, but don't you have any SPD pedals? I know you have/had a CX bike.

SPDs are the world's greatest dope pedals. Double-sided, so no pedal flipping. You basically just step down and click in. Very easy to get out of and a good reason for using them riding CX or MTB -- if you stall, its easy to panic exit. No skill necessary. I gravel ride and commute in SPDs.

The big difference for me is the shoe and the small platform for pressure distribution. I have some pretty nice lugged-sole SIDI MTB shoes, but they're not as svelte or stiff or good-fitting as my racing shoes, but still stiff enough where I don't think I'm getting pressure spots because of the small size of the SPD platform, but I can feel the smaller platform area. Its more of a feel thing than a problem of any kind. At least theoretically, SPDs give you less support than a Keo Max, which is what I use. For me, the biggest difference is the shoe.

-- Jay Beattie.
This is meant as a put down - don't you know that their road pedals are also called SpD's? https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...ontent=Shimano
Actually not. SPDs versus SPD-SLs. SPD is a term universally used to refer to the MTB pedal.

Your post also referred to not needing cleat covers. A SPD-SL aka Shimano road pedal cleat would need a cleat cover, unless you have a rare shoe with giant lugs that surround the cleat. https://tinyurl.com/y5vupnf7 You were talking about walkable cleats, which indicates something other than a Look or Shimano road cleat.

My son has both Look and Shimano road pedals and cleats and prefers Shimano, but I can't recall why.

-- Jay Beattie.

The general name for Shimano pedals is PD (PeDal) followed by a identifier. For road pedals it is R followed by a number and for mountainbikes it is M followed by a number. The road pedals are also known as SPD-SL and the mountain bike pedals just as SPD. SPD-SL cleats are more walkable than Look Keo cleats. The confusion is understandable but Tom is in no position to put someone down who is trying to help him. That is a nasty habit of him.

Lou
It's "Shimano Pedaling Dynamics," and Shimano refers to the MTB pedal as SPD and the road pedal as SPD-SL. https://tinyurl.com/y3nhu4fc Note: https://tinyurl.com/y5qp6v65 I assumed Tom was following that convention, particularly since he was so excited about walkability.

I don't think of any full-sized road cleat as "walkable." https://tinyurl.com/y4nltx4n It may have better pads/traction than the Keo, but it is the same old bulky road cleat. My walkable shoes are SPD MTB shoes with SPD cleats below lugs. If I had to do any significant walking on the Shimano SPD-SLs, I'd get covers. https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Cleat.../dp/B078NNHQV2


-- Jay Beattie.


What is that with shoe covers? Is this a US thing? Never see those around here. People who want to walk around here use SPD pedals and shoes.

How odd. When we visited Amsterdam we saw thousands of cyclists. They
rode bikes and they walked, but AFAIK I never saw a bike with SPD pedals.

We'll be off in a few minutes to get a load of groceries by bike(s). The
shoes I'll be wearing have nothing special to do with bicycling. They're
just shoes.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Op vrijdag 18 september 2020 om 19:01:42 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/18/2020 2:01 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 17 september 2020 om 21:09:27 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op donderdag 17 september 2020 om 19:03:47 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Thursday, September 17, 2020 at 9:48:13 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:03:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 3:33:03 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Has anyone used both of these pedals? I have a set of Keo Blades and I was going to install them in place of "Tour de Franc" Keo pedals and much to my surprise and the knowledge of a scale, they weight exactly the same. The Tour de France might have been a couple of grams lighter! And they have a far better release mechanism.

But when I got a set of used but unused Bontrager shoes, they had the SpD cleats on them and they are all hell and gone better to walk in. You don't need to be fumbling around with cleat covers. DuraAce SpD's are expensive as hell but if I didn't have to carry cleat covers around in my back pockets it might be worth it. How do the SpD's compare to the Keos?
O.K., this is not a put down, but don't you have any SPD pedals? I know you have/had a CX bike.

SPDs are the world's greatest dope pedals. Double-sided, so no pedal flipping. You basically just step down and click in. Very easy to get out of and a good reason for using them riding CX or MTB -- if you stall, its easy to panic exit. No skill necessary. I gravel ride and commute in SPDs.

The big difference for me is the shoe and the small platform for pressure distribution. I have some pretty nice lugged-sole SIDI MTB shoes, but they're not as svelte or stiff or good-fitting as my racing shoes, but still stiff enough where I don't think I'm getting pressure spots because of the small size of the SPD platform, but I can feel the smaller platform area. Its more of a feel thing than a problem of any kind. At least theoretically, SPDs give you less support than a Keo Max, which is what I use. For me, the biggest difference is the shoe.

-- Jay Beattie.
This is meant as a put down - don't you know that their road pedals are also called SpD's? https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...ontent=Shimano
Actually not. SPDs versus SPD-SLs. SPD is a term universally used to refer to the MTB pedal.

Your post also referred to not needing cleat covers. A SPD-SL aka Shimano road pedal cleat would need a cleat cover, unless you have a rare shoe with giant lugs that surround the cleat. https://tinyurl.com/y5vupnf7 You were talking about walkable cleats, which indicates something other than a Look or Shimano road cleat.

My son has both Look and Shimano road pedals and cleats and prefers Shimano, but I can't recall why.

-- Jay Beattie.

The general name for Shimano pedals is PD (PeDal) followed by a identifier. For road pedals it is R followed by a number and for mountainbikes it is M followed by a number. The road pedals are also known as SPD-SL and the mountain bike pedals just as SPD. SPD-SL cleats are more walkable than Look Keo cleats. The confusion is understandable but Tom is in no position to put someone down who is trying to help him. That is a nasty habit of him.

Lou
It's "Shimano Pedaling Dynamics," and Shimano refers to the MTB pedal as SPD and the road pedal as SPD-SL. https://tinyurl.com/y3nhu4fc Note: https://tinyurl.com/y5qp6v65 I assumed Tom was following that convention, particularly since he was so excited about walkability.

I don't think of any full-sized road cleat as "walkable." https://tinyurl.com/y4nltx4n It may have better pads/traction than the Keo, but it is the same old bulky road cleat. My walkable shoes are SPD MTB shoes with SPD cleats below lugs. If I had to do any significant walking on the Shimano SPD-SLs, I'd get covers. https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Cleat.../dp/B078NNHQV2


-- Jay Beattie.


What is that with shoe covers? Is this a US thing? Never see those around here. People who want to walk around here use SPD pedals and shoes.
How odd. When we visited Amsterdam we saw thousands of cyclists. They
rode bikes and they walked, but AFAIK I never saw a bike with SPD pedals.

We'll be off in a few minutes to get a load of groceries by bike(s). The
shoes I'll be wearing have nothing special to do with bicycling. They're
just shoes.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I was not talking about utility cycling. For utility cycling we use platform pedals.

Lou